RAF in poor shape

[Steel_Tomb]

This is a real problem, the MoD is apparently considering a £2bil cut in the defence budget next year. The UK's armed forces are operating in two theaters, with other numerous over seas commitments i.e. the Falklands with less equipment. In the "good old days" of the Cold War there were some 30 operational fast jet squadrons in the RAF, now I believe there are less than ten.

The Navy, although equiped with RAF harriers, has no potent airborne fighter like the Phantom's from the previous generation of carriers (HMS Ark Royal and HMS Eagle). The senior service is also suffering from a very old fleet, which is in desperate need of replacement. Granted the Type 45's are entering service which is great news, but their numbers are too few to be an effective platform.

The Army is also suffering from a lack of equipment. When my dad was deployed to Iraq, he had to borrow an armoured jacket off another squadron member. He had to do the same with his sidearm, which didn't even have a full magazine... he was "only" medical staff... but even so thats a piss poor show. Last year the AAC's Apache's ran out of Hellfire's because we hadn't stockpiled enough.

Where is our nations military heading? Do they not realise that we are seriously under equipped? The Battle Of Britain was only won by a whisker... they caught us unprepared then and we're in an even worse shape now. Considering how this country used to have the biggest Navy in the world, one of the finest Air Forces and an Army to be proud of... it wonders where we're going.

I'm looking to join the military myself, and I really respect everyone in the UK's armed forces for making a bloody good job out of a bad situation. The Government have a f**king big debt to pay to these men and women, and they can't even be bothered to get the right equipment for them. The MoD budget equates to something like 3% of the UK's GDP... three f**king percent!


Source: http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp?id=9007

Over half of fighter jets not fit for purpose

Wednesday, March 25, 2009

Over half of the RAF's fighter aircraft fleet is considered either unfit for service or unable to serve in the forward fleet according to the MoD.

Despite spending hundreds of millions of pounds in the procurement of Typhoons and urgent operational requirements for Harriers, Hawk T1s and Tornados, approximately 46 per cent of the entire fighter jet fleet, is considered "fit for purpose." In total this amounts to 219 planes.

Of the remaining 54 per cent, or 237 planes, 61 are in the forward fleet but are undergoing minor maintenance or upgrades while 186 are in the "depth fleet", meaning the planes are undergoing extensive upgrades or repairs and would not be able to respond to operational requirements.

Some of the shortages of planes were astounding. Hundreds of millions of pounds have been spent on the procurement of the 53 Typhoons but only 20 of the aircraft are considered "fit for purpose."

Only 61 out of 138 Tornado GR4s are considered fit for purpose as well. Only the Harrier fleet with 44 out of 74 planes, has well over half of its planes fit for duty.

The irony is that the Harrier fleet is to be withdrawn from Afghanistan this summer and replaced by the GR4s.

So far commanders in Afghanistan have not raised concerns over shortages of fast jets due to contributions from the Royal Navy and other NATO allies. But the shortage is already evident here in Britain. Last year a Russian bomber nearly entered British airspace when the RAF had trouble finding a pair of Tornados fit to scramble the aircraft.

As the fleet continues to age, the number of planes ready for operations will only decrease.

[Oberon]

Aye, it is a piss-poor state of affairs, but there are greater priorities in the UK! Such as moats, second homes....
We're doomed.

[AVGWarhawk]

We will be along shortly to take your land. Is it so smart to advertise this as the defense management did? If it were I things of this nature would be fixed very quietly.

[Steel_Tomb]

When you consider how many billions the Governments been chucking away left right and centre you wonder why they dont chuck say an extra 10 billion quid at the defence budget... amongst the hundreds of billions of pounds they've borrowed I doubt they'd miss it!

This is the bit that REALLY worries me:

"Last year a Russian bomber nearly entered British airspace when the RAF had trouble finding a pair of Tornados fit to scramble the aircraft."

Back in the Cold War that thing wouldn't have even made it past Norway without interception...

[mr chris]

Ah it is a very poor show. But what do you expect from a bunch of muppets that expect more to be done with less cash and less people year on year.
All the while they are claiming cash for mortgages that do not exist.

The kit is getting out to the people on the ground but to late and in to few numbers.

I was out in Iraq last year gotta to say the was plenty of kit and most of it was new and very good kit for the theatre.
But that was 5 years after the war started. You would expect to go to war with the right kit not get the right kit just before you are buggering off.

Pay was a is a big issue. 2 years ago the forces lowest ranks were given a pay rise of 14.5% until then a Pte solider on a op tour was getting paid less than a traffic warden for put his life on the line for his country.

Also housing in the forces is not that great but getting better.
To be fair to the government they have spent big on this but only after decades of underfunding. Also i doubt this would have happened had not the last and current head of the army brought this to the attention on the media.

Take My house here in Cyprus as a example. Built in the early 60's and has a asbestos roof!!!
oh and couple that with that all you have keep the house cool with summer temps of nearly 40 degrees week in week out is a measly fan in each room.
Having the windows open with no net is a no no as your house will then be full of mozzies and cockroaches and other insects. also my kitchen has started to be over run by ants the size of cats as the back wall has small holes in it.

[Stealhead]

Yeah I recall the RAF members at Ramstein AB Germany where I was there in the enlisted dorms for the USAF the RAF lived on the 4th floor opposite the side I lived on. They where lucky the dorms we had where one person to room with a shared bathroom back to back with the next room so if you got along well with your "piss mate" you had a giant double room.

Some of the RAF members did not like us Airmen and the friendlier RAF memebers said it was because we got higher pay in the same basic rank than a Brit did.At the same time they dont consdier that we are much farther away from our families than a brit in germany is. To me it was silly if we where RAF wed all be the same you cant get mad when somone from another nations military gets higher pay.

Seeing as the British military dose not have as large a budget as the US dose I would expect that they have a bit less of the best and newest kit. But the US military is not much better the droms I lived in for 8 months while in tech school had no A/C and this was in Texas in the summer time Id guess that hte dorms had been there since the 60s.

To me part of being in the military is dealing with the old stuff and keeping it going you have to roll with the punches I guess like those before you did.

[Jimbuna]

This doesn't actually suprise me when I consider the fact that a female colleague of mine had to send her son a decent pair of boots when he was posted to Afghanistan nearly two years back.

The Labour government have got this country in a right royal state but I fear even worse is to come when/if the Conservatives get in next year.

The days when the sun never set on the British Empire are now simply distant memories of myth and legend

[SteamWake]

Maybe you can get the US to lend or lease you some equipment....

Oh wait wrong war.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Maybe you can get the US to lend or lease you some equipment....

Oh wait wrong war.

This is as bad as it gets

The main legacy of the War in concrete terms (literally) was the construction of a new air base to act as an air head for reinforcement of the Islands. Opened on 12 May 1985, it is capable of taking wide-bodied jets like TriStars and Boeing 747s. Resident flying units include 78 Squadron and 1435 Flight (which today operates four Tornado F3s coded F (Faith), H (Hope), C (Charity) and D (Desperation)) and operates a round-the-clock Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) mission. There is also 1312 Flight, formed out of the Hercules C-130K tanker detachment that previously operated the air bridge mentioned above and currently operates a single VC10 tanker and single Hercules. Whilst its primary role is to provide tanker support to the interceptor force it has several secondary roles including maritime reconnaissance, SAR and casevac.

http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/oldstuf.../falklands.htm

The Royal Air Force contribution to this deterrent is based at RAF Mount Pleasant, the primary component of which is No.1435 Flight, with its four Tornado F3s providing air defence. The aircraft are permanently based in the islands, while the aircrew from the UK are cycled through No 1435 Flight, with the only limitation being the necessary weather flying qualifications. While there they provide a 365 day, 24 hour alert.

http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/326063

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

This is as bad as it gets

Glad you appreciated the joke.

Oh wait ... your serious :rotfl:

[XabbaRus]

I'm sometimes sceptical about articles such as this.

I know things aren't great but I still think we are in better shape than many other countries.

The Russian jet thing was blown out of proportion.

[Steel_Tomb]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-disgrace.html

Type 45 destroyer has been put into service WITHOUT its primary weapons system operative. Whats the point? Considering the vital importance of keeping the Atlantic under control you would have thought the Navy would have been pampered beyond belief. They must have forgotten how close the UK came to starvation in WWII due to the U-Boat threat...

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-disgrace.html

Type 45 destroyer has been put into service WITHOUT its primary weapons system operative. Whats the point? Considering the vital importance of keeping the Atlantic under control you would have thought the Navy would have been pampered beyond belief. They must have forgotten how close the UK came to starvation in WWII due to the U-Boat threat...

Leave it to the Americans. That's what NATO is for.

People like to think of NATO as an American-led alliance, but it was actually put together by the Europeans. They wanted to have security from the Soviets but they didn't want to pay for it. So they got the Americans to do it. They're still doing it today.

It's a pretty good deal for them - the Americans pay for the guns, and the Europeans enjoy the butter.

[XabbaRus]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-disgrace.html

Type 45 destroyer has been put into service WITHOUT its primary weapons system operative. Whats the point? Considering the vital importance of keeping the Atlantic under control you would have thought the Navy would have been pampered beyond belief. They must have forgotten how close the UK came to starvation in WWII due to the U-Boat threat...

Again that is a half truth and journolistic nonsense. Daring is not yet fully commissioned.

You should know by now not to believe everything the telegraph says.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Glad you appreciated the joke.

Oh wait ... your serious :rotfl:

As serious as a heart attack......whilst appreciating ALL the comments by XabbaRus and Steel_Tomb....the bottom line is BRITAIN AND IT'S ARMED FORCES PERSONNEL EXPECTS BETTER FROM IT'S GOVERNMENT!!