Shadowing in the daylight

[Kpt. Weyprecht]

RL and constant computer issues keep me away of the game but I just read a description of a convoy attack in Teddy Suhren's "Nasses Eichenlaub" and it suggested me some more noobish questions.
Let's suppose I had no previous radio contact which would allow me to get to the right position. Im on the surface in daytime and mu lookouts report a target. Unfortunately, I'm not at all ahead of him. Now I have to dive so that the target wouldn't spot me. If I can get to the right place submerged it's fine but id doesn't happen very often. Then how do you Grauen Wölfe overhaul in daytime? IRL they would keep just the masttops over the horizon, but this is impossible in the flat SHIII world. Is there any kind of "safe" distance (which actually shouldn't exist)? Or you'd dive, get beyond the range of sight and overhaul while diving from time to time to get a Horchpeilung? Especially if the target happens to be a convoy or a task force... This reminds me of a trip to Liverpool... Damn' that battleship! And a tanker...

[Platapus]

Shadowing a ship or convoy is as tricky in the game as in real life I would suppose.

There are two general strategies that I use:

1. Constant observation - This is where I try to position my sub at the very extreme of visibility to the nearest ship. This is based on the assumption that if I can barely see the top of the boat, they boat can't see my sub.

Advantages: I can get a very good track of the course and tell when the ship/convoy changes direction. It would be easier if the game would have the ability to calculate and automatically steer a parallel course.

Disadvantages: You really can't use TC very much so this is very very very boring. I have lost convoys at 16x TC so mostly I use a max of 8. This really only works when the ship is moving slow so I can overtake within an hour or two.

2. Sneak-a-peek - This is where I get close enough to get a good plot of the ship and then scoot back to where the ship is no longer visible to me. I make sure that I carefully mark my chart with not only the position of the ship but my position. I than race ahead on what I think is a parallel course.

After "some time" I turn in to where the ship is until I detect the ship and then plot my position and the position of the ship. Then I scoot out of range again.

Advantages: You can use TC

Disadvantages: Much harder to get a good plot and very easy to miss a course change.

Overtaking a convoy is not fun at all. I really only do it when the convoy is moving at a slow speed. Spending six hours of RL time overtaking a fast convoy at 4x TC is not my idea of a fun evening.

Good luck with it.

[Jaman]

I would say hydrophone and patience. Once you got their course try to plot your own course parallel to theirs, but stay out of sight. Every hour do a hydrophone check to make sure they are not drifting or had change course. Then wait until night or move ahead enough to still be able to catch them while moving submerged.

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Weyprecht

IRL they would keep just the masttops over the horizon, but this is impossible in the flat SHIII world.

Incorrect. You can shadow a convoy easily, in SH3, by staying at the edge of visual range. Well, I say "easily" but it's actually very laborious (much as it was IRL) and it will also depend somewhat on which environment mod you're using (if any) but generally speaking if you keep your distance they won't see you.

[sharkbit]

Anybody can aim and shoot a torpedo. The hard part is getting in front of the target in good position to do it. Once in front of the target, the rest is a piece of cake.
This is a VERY basic outline of a very basic tactic, but a key tactic to submarining success.

This is what I do(patience is the key):

Phase 1: Intel Gathering(I think the most important part)
Get speed and course of target. Get close enough to see the ship and get 3 to 4 plots 3:15 apart. This will give you a pretty good base course and speed. If the target is escorted(i.e. convoy), you got to be pretty careful. If the stern escort or one of the flankers have radar, this might get difficult. You may need to make a quick plot and scoot back out of sight.

Phase 2: Plot the end around.
Draw a course line for your target.
Draw a 12-18km radius circle(depending on visibility) and place this on the course line of your target. Plot a course for your submarine skirting this circle until you are parallel to the target's course. Move the circle around on the course line some to refine your plot.
(I try to stay completely out of visual range while on my flanking move and pour the coals to her-Ahead Flank. I have been spotted at longer ranges when I've been at high speed and still in sight of my target.)

This is where it might get tricky:
Make a note of what time the last mark was made on the nav map. Use the nomograph or speed/time charts that come with GWX to see how far the target will travel in two hours compared to how far your submarine will travel in two hours or so at the speed you want to outflank at and make a mark on the target's course line. If you will be far enough ahead you can plot a course to start to easing in on the target's course line.
(I use two hours as a starting point-you may need to adjust this time up or down depending on your's and the target's speed and see where you and the target will be at the end of that time and see if you are far enough ahead to start heading in toward the target's track.)

Occasionally, slow down and ease in toward the target a little and regain visual contact and make sure the target hasn't changed course(or dive and do a sound check).

I try to adjust my speed so I can get ahead of the target at a time of my choosing that will help make an attack successful, even if that means sailing on a parallel course at the target's speed for a while.
High time compression will work so you don't waste hours of real time doing this.

Phase 3: Close Target's Track
Once far enough ahead, close the target's track and then backtrack down the course until you regain contact and begin your attack.


This technique is not without disadvantages however:
The target can change course and you may have to basically start over or even lose the target(never happened to me before-yeah right!).
Convoy escorts do head away from the convoy at times to search and you may have to evade occasionally(never happened to me before-yeah right!).
Aircraft can force you under while end arounding(never happened to me before-yeah right! No really).
You can start in too early and spot the target too soon and not in the position you want and have to run a little further ahead-(never happened to me before-yeah right!).

From what I've read though, the above disadvantages happened in real life to real submarines in the Atlantic and Pacific.

The technique will have to be adjusted based on conditions, area, air cover, proximity to land, and year, but the basic tactic will work to get you ahead of the target.

[Kpt. Weyprecht]

Thanks for the advice, I see how it works in general outlines, now what I need is a working u-boot to try it out.

To put it in a nutshell: BE MORE AGGRESSIVE! as BdU would say it.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Weyprecht

To put it in a nutshell: BE MORE AGGRESSIVE! as BdU would say it.

Just remember what Uncle Donitz sez "there are old Kaluens and bold Kaluens but very few old bold Kaluens.

Be aggressive in a cautious sort of way.

It is gonna be a long war....