Built-In Maneuvering Board

don1reed · 10-25-06, 07:24 AM

Some of us have been playing SH3 without the U-boat icon being displayed on the F5 screen with the hope of creating a greater challenge and using real navigation skills, i.e., allowing for a virtual “sextant” positioning by only clicking CNTL-Left mouse button whenever the weather is clear enough to use a sextant while surfaced. We then update our chart with an “x” to mark our position. We do not use this virtual sextant after evening twilight or before morning twilight, as real mariners do/did. You can read more about this interesting challenge at:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=93937&goto=newpost
However, the reason I’m bringing this up is show another method of determining target speed by using the F5 chart screen as a “maneuvering board” aka MOBOARD.

Given:

Own course: 286° true.
Own speed: 13 kn.

We can represent this info with the use of the compass tool, i.e.,

Let the center of the compass tool circle equal your position.
Strike off the radius angle to equal your heading and radius length equal your speed. I use the built-in protractor to measure the angle.

Watch Officer sights a ship BR 071 @ 9700m.

From our position (center of circle) use the ruler tool to mark off the range and bearing. After this, place an “X” at the target ship’s location.

3:15 later, the Watch Officer (when asked) informs us that the target is now BR 78 @ 6500m. Again, use the ruler tool and “X” to display this update.

Now, take the compass tool and connect the target ship’s relative movement. Drag this small relative circle by its center to the leading point (speed radius) of our circle. This provides us with the target’s relative heading and speed.

We can now take the ruler tool and draw a line, completing the vector; from our position to the point of the target’s relative speed/heading line…this now displays the target’s TRUE Course and Speed. C271 S11.6.

SkvyWvr · 10-25-06, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by don1reed

Some of us have been playing SH3 without the U-boat icon being displayed on the F5 screen with the hope of creating a greater challenge and using real navigation skills, i.e., allowing for a virtual “sextant” positioning by only clicking CNTL-Left mouse button whenever the weather is clear enough to use a sextant while surfaced. We then update our chart with an “x” to mark our position. We do not use this virtual sextant after evening twilight or before morning twilight, as real mariners do/did. You can read more about this interesting challenge at:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=93937&goto=newpost
However, the reason I’m bringing this up is show another method of determining target speed by using the F5 chart screen as a “maneuvering board” aka MOBOARD.

Given:

Own course: 286° true.
Own speed: 13 kn.

We can represent this info with the use of the compass tool, i.e.,

Let the center of the compass tool circle equal your position.
Strike off the radius angle to equal your heading and radius length equal your speed. I use the built-in protractor to measure the angle.

Watch Officer sights a ship BR 071 @ 9700m.

From our position (center of circle) use the ruler tool to mark off the range and bearing. After this, place an “X” at the target ship’s location.

3:15 later, the Watch Officer (when asked) informs us that the target is now BR 78 @ 6500m. Again, use the ruler tool and “X” to display this update.

Now, take the compass tool and connect the target ship’s relative movement. Drag this small relative circle by its center to the leading point (speed radius) of our circle. This provides us with the target’s relative heading and speed.

We can now take the ruler tool and draw a line, completing the vector; from our position to the point of the target’s relative speed/heading line…this now displays the target’s TRUE Course and Speed. C271 S11.6.

Genius!

don1reed · 10-25-06, 09:17 AM

Here's to old salts

gutted · 10-25-06, 02:42 PM

maybe i'm missing something.. but what was the point of moving it infront of you.. when you already had his heading and speed plotted?

don1reed · 10-25-06, 04:50 PM

The Maneuvering Board method allows you to plot the target(s) using their relative position from one uboat position.

All plotting systems shown thus far in these forums only demonstrate a method that you must plot both the target and the uboat's progress within the timed run ... there is nothing wrong with doing it that way; however, within the military combat control centers (CIC) plotting is accomplished using the MOBOARD method.

What I am trying to illustrate here is that there are other methods available that are more in keeping with history, and especially those who would like to try navigation without the "training wheels" of the waypoint tool and the "moving" U-boat icon, or any ship icon for that matter, on the F5 screen.

Relative movement means that it appears that the target is moving in a particular direction due to the movement of both vessels. The Moboard allows the user to simplify this relative movement via vectors and precisely figure the target's TRUE course and speed. Once computed, the reverse may then be applied with the target placed in the center and then vectors applied to the U-boat to figure distance and speed necessary to make an end round for future attack.

A real MOBOARD looks like this:

You can find these for free DL if you wanted to use an off-computer, external method as well.
cheers,

gutted · 10-25-06, 04:58 PM

that still doesn't explain why you moved it to where you did.

i just don't get whats going on in your last few steps.

don1reed · 10-25-06, 05:40 PM

Ahh, now I understand.

Well as you can see in my example above, both the target and I are roughly travelling in the same direction. When I view the target, his angle on the bow is about 77°. Over the 3.15 minutes run, we got closer to each other. At the start of the run, he was 9700m away, at the end he was 6500m. His relative movement seems to be heading toward me at 3.5kn. This relative movement circle is then dragged to the tip of my heading and speed of 13kn. I then use the ruler tool and draw a line from my position (center of big circle) to the tip of his relative heading/speed and viola, it measures @271° and 11.5 kn., which is his TRUE heading and speed.

This might help as well:

http://www2.ku.edu/~kunrotc/academic...t#300,1,Lesson 23: Maneuvering Board Fundamentals

Try to get a copy of Pub 217 Maneuvering Board Manual. (I believe it can be DL for free as well)
I hope that helped.

gutted · 10-25-06, 06:03 PM

ok, i get it now. thanks

gutted · 10-25-06, 06:41 PM

tried it out on the C2 in the torpedo training mission.

i plotted it just like you showed and i missed. so i turned on map contact updates and external views so i could double check my second try. i again missed.. torpedos well ahead of him.

after double checking what i plotted in some empty space and comparing it to his exact known locations (map contact)... i could see my target heading was off by 5 degrees and the speed was off by 2knots (too fast).

basically, i started the mission and immediately went full ahead in periscope depth and turned right about 30 degrees. took two readings of the C2 ~3:15 apart and plotted it in some empty map space (as if i didn't know where i was) just like you showed. on my second try with the aids turned on.. i even got EXACT range readings just to be sure i wasn't at fault with that.

and still i was off.

hmph

gutted · 10-26-06, 05:27 AM

tried it 3 more times with map contacts on. everytime the heading and speed is off.

i'm at a loss.

SkvyWvr · 10-26-06, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gutted

tried it 3 more times with map contacts on. everytime the heading and speed is off.

i'm at a loss.

Sounds like don1reed needs to send you to OS a school.

don1reed · 10-26-06, 07:28 AM

I'm curious as to what target speed you came up with?

For sake of arguement, I tried the academy torpedo mission and went after the C2 also...here's what I came up with

My params: C040, S3, Depth 13m. (note: I changed course trying to come parallel with the target)

Target: BR 309 @ 1600m

3:15 later

Target: BR 313 @ 1504m

Targets relative course and speed: C123, S 1.4

Targets TRUE course and speed: C066, S 3.5

I fired two weapons as single shots and both struck MOT.

Here's how the problem works out on a homemade moboard:

Note: if you rely on the Weapons Officer for bearing and range while submerged you may get erroneous results; however, I only use the weapons officer when surfaced and the ranges are much farther out, beyond 5000m.

flakmonkey · 10-26-06, 09:07 AM

great method, however my WO only gives me a bearing and not range

small prob as i can obviously do that my self but it`d be nice if my watch officer would do it for me!

(flakmonkey... possibly the laziest uboat commanger afloat.)

TarJak · 10-26-06, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flakmonkey

great method, however my WO only gives me a bearing and not range

small prob as i can obviously do that my self but it`d be nice if my watch officer would do it for me!

(flakmonkey... possibly the laziest uboat commanger afloat.)

You need to ask him nicely!

If you click on the watch officer and ask for nearest visual target he will tell you the bearing and range.

kylania · 10-26-06, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

If you click on the watch officer and ask for nearest visual target he will tell you the bearing and range.

NYGM 2.2 and other mods have removed the range given by the WO as being "unrealistic" so this method (and dantenoc's wonderful manual targeting tutorial video) won't work with that super mod in place.

10-25-06, 07:24 AM	#1
don1reed Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Valhalla: Silent Generation Posts: 1,149 Downloads: 910 Uploads: 0	Built-In Maneuvering Board Some of us have been playing SH3 without the U-boat icon being displayed on the F5 screen with the hope of creating a greater challenge and using real navigation skills, i.e., allowing for a virtual “sextant” positioning by only clicking CNTL-Left mouse button whenever the weather is clear enough to use a sextant while surfaced. We then update our chart with an “x” to mark our position. We do not use this virtual sextant after evening twilight or before morning twilight, as real mariners do/did. You can read more about this interesting challenge at: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=93937&goto=newpost However, the reason I’m bringing this up is show another method of determining target speed by using the F5 chart screen as a “maneuvering board” aka MOBOARD. Given: Own course: 286° true. Own speed: 13 kn. We can represent this info with the use of the compass tool, i.e., Let the center of the compass tool circle equal your position. Strike off the radius angle to equal your heading and radius length equal your speed. I use the built-in protractor to measure the angle. Watch Officer sights a ship BR 071 @ 9700m. From our position (center of circle) use the ruler tool to mark off the range and bearing. After this, place an “X” at the target ship’s location. 3:15 later, the Watch Officer (when asked) informs us that the target is now BR 78 @ 6500m. Again, use the ruler tool and “X” to display this update. Now, take the compass tool and connect the target ship’s relative movement. Drag this small relative circle by its center to the leading point (speed radius) of our circle. This provides us with the target’s relative heading and speed. We can now take the ruler tool and draw a line, completing the vector; from our position to the point of the target’s relative speed/heading line…this now displays the target’s TRUE Course and Speed. C271 S11.6. __________________ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~ George Orwell Last edited by don1reed; 10-25-06 at 07:32 AM.

10-25-06, 04:50 PM	#5
don1reed Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Valhalla: Silent Generation Posts: 1,149 Downloads: 910 Uploads: 0	The Maneuvering Board method allows you to plot the target(s) using their relative position from one uboat position. All plotting systems shown thus far in these forums only demonstrate a method that you must plot both the target and the uboat's progress within the timed run ... there is nothing wrong with doing it that way; however, within the military combat control centers (CIC) plotting is accomplished using the MOBOARD method. What I am trying to illustrate here is that there are other methods available that are more in keeping with history, and especially those who would like to try navigation without the "training wheels" of the waypoint tool and the "moving" U-boat icon, or any ship icon for that matter, on the F5 screen. Relative movement means that it appears that the target is moving in a particular direction due to the movement of both vessels. The Moboard allows the user to simplify this relative movement via vectors and precisely figure the target's TRUE course and speed. Once computed, the reverse may then be applied with the target placed in the center and then vectors applied to the U-boat to figure distance and speed necessary to make an end round for future attack. A real MOBOARD looks like this: You can find these for free DL if you wanted to use an off-computer, external method as well. cheers, __________________ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~ George Orwell Last edited by don1reed; 10-25-06 at 05:07 PM.

10-25-06, 05:40 PM	#7
don1reed Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Valhalla: Silent Generation Posts: 1,149 Downloads: 910 Uploads: 0	Ahh, now I understand. Well as you can see in my example above, both the target and I are roughly travelling in the same direction. When I view the target, his angle on the bow is about 77°. Over the 3.15 minutes run, we got closer to each other. At the start of the run, he was 9700m away, at the end he was 6500m. His relative movement seems to be heading toward me at 3.5kn. This relative movement circle is then dragged to the tip of my heading and speed of 13kn. I then use the ruler tool and draw a line from my position (center of big circle) to the tip of his relative heading/speed and viola, it measures @271° and 11.5 kn., which is his TRUE heading and speed. This might help as well: http://www2.ku.edu/~kunrotc/academic...t#300,1,Lesson 23: Maneuvering Board Fundamentals Try to get a copy of Pub 217 Maneuvering Board Manual. (I believe it can be DL for free as well) I hope that helped. __________________ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~ George Orwell Last edited by don1reed; 10-25-06 at 05:59 PM.

10-25-06, 06:41 PM	#9
gutted The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA. Posts: 1,353 Downloads: 470 Uploads: 10	tried it out on the C2 in the torpedo training mission. i plotted it just like you showed and i missed. so i turned on map contact updates and external views so i could double check my second try. i again missed.. torpedos well ahead of him. after double checking what i plotted in some empty space and comparing it to his exact known locations (map contact)... i could see my target heading was off by 5 degrees and the speed was off by 2knots (too fast). basically, i started the mission and immediately went full ahead in periscope depth and turned right about 30 degrees. took two readings of the C2 ~3:15 apart and plotted it in some empty map space (as if i didn't know where i was) just like you showed. on my second try with the aids turned on.. i even got EXACT range readings just to be sure i wasn't at fault with that. and still i was off. hmph Last edited by gutted; 10-25-06 at 06:44 PM.

10-26-06, 07:28 AM	#12
don1reed Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Valhalla: Silent Generation Posts: 1,149 Downloads: 910 Uploads: 0	I'm curious as to what target speed you came up with? For sake of arguement, I tried the academy torpedo mission and went after the C2 also...here's what I came up with My params: C040, S3, Depth 13m. (note: I changed course trying to come parallel with the target) Target: BR 309 @ 1600m 3:15 later Target: BR 313 @ 1504m Targets relative course and speed: C123, S 1.4 Targets TRUE course and speed: C066, S 3.5 I fired two weapons as single shots and both struck MOT. Here's how the problem works out on a homemade moboard: Note: if you rely on the Weapons Officer for bearing and range while submerged you may get erroneous results; however, I only use the weapons officer when surfaced and the ranges are much farther out, beyond 5000m. __________________ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~ George Orwell Last edited by don1reed; 10-26-06 at 08:15 AM.

10-25-06, 09:17 AM	#3
don1reed Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Valhalla: Silent Generation Posts: 1,149 Downloads: 910 Uploads: 0	Here's to old salts __________________ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~ George Orwell

10-25-06, 02:42 PM	#4
gutted The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA. Posts: 1,353 Downloads: 470 Uploads: 10	maybe i'm missing something.. but what was the point of moving it infront of you.. when you already had his heading and speed plotted?

10-25-06, 04:58 PM	#6
gutted The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA. Posts: 1,353 Downloads: 470 Uploads: 10	that still doesn't explain why you moved it to where you did. i just don't get whats going on in your last few steps.

10-25-06, 06:03 PM	#8
gutted The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA. Posts: 1,353 Downloads: 470 Uploads: 10	ok, i get it now. thanks

10-26-06, 05:27 AM	#10
gutted The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA. Posts: 1,353 Downloads: 470 Uploads: 10	tried it 3 more times with map contacts on. everytime the heading and speed is off. i'm at a loss.

10-26-06, 09:07 AM	#13
flakmonkey Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Staffordshire, Uk Posts: 944 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	great method, however my WO only gives me a bearing and not range small prob as i can obviously do that my self but it`d be nice if my watch officer would do it for me! (flakmonkey... possibly the laziest uboat commanger afloat.)