[POLL] Which radar ranges (yards) you prefer?

[Hitman]

As some of you might already know, I am working with help from Nisgeis and Anvart in a mod that combines hi-res radar displays (1024) with new layouts and a range grid in the A-Scope.

I have planned to make a second version with the A-Scope scale in YARDS, thus allowing the users of imperial system to get accurate ranges and be able to plot without needing to convert units. In my experience so far, with a little practice I can read the range with an accurancy of +/- 100 yards at medium to long ranges, and with an accurancy of +/- 50 for short ranges. I'm sorry, as more precission is impossible but that's already a lot better than what the stock game allows (In the metric version however, I will be able to use Nisgeis range readout which allows nailing down to the metre the distance to the target, but unfortunately it doesn't work with yards )

The problem now is that I must make a design decission, regarding the size of divisions. As you might have noticed, the A-Scope range scale is NOT linear, but algorythmic, hence the divisions are not the same and the rightmost ones are more cramped and difficult to read.

My options now are:

A.- Leave the same ranges as in stock: 3.000/20.000/60.000 yards

Advantages:

1.- Matches the labels in the game (No big deal anyway),
2.- Allows good reading of ranges between 15.000 and 30.000 yards, i.e. just beyond visual range (Around 22.000 yards) and up to maximum radar capability in the game (Around 40.000 yards).
3.- Historic accurancy? (Must confirm that)
4.- Renders unnecessary to tweak additional files for the new radar ranges (easier compatible with other mods)

Disadvantages:

1.- Bad reading of ranges beyond 30.000 yards,
2.- The lower 3.000 yards range is nearly unusable as you would collide with the enemy before being able to plot the second movement. In real subs this was probably used simply for maneuvering in cramped places with little visibility, but in SH4 this is pointless.
3.- The scale will not work so intuitively for the medium and short range

B.- Change the ranges to: 10.000/20.000/40.000 yards

Advantages:

1.- Good accurancy at close and medium ranges (Up to 20.000 yards)
2.- The scale works intuitively for all three ranges (each small mark is respectively 250/500/1000 yards)

Disadvantages:

1.- No longer matches the labels in the game (No big deal anyway),
2.- Not so good reading of ranges between 20.000-40.000 yards, specially beyond 30.000. And no reading of ranges at all beyond 40.000 (In case the game detects something up there)
3.- Makes necessary to tweak additional files for the new radar ranges (Lower compatibility with other mods)

C.- Other suggestions you guys can provide.

So click the mouse and let me know your opinion, I'm willing to provide the best solution possible!

P.S. each of those scales is a nightmare of testing, changing, retouching and testing again, so don't even ask for more alternatives!! I will do only one


PREVIEW OF THE RANGE SCALE IN METRES (BETA WIP):

[AVGWarhawk]

I selected stock only because of possible historical accuracy. I believe this is the route it should take.

Then again, the radar is darn good in game. No interference from anything. No breakdowns that happened often. Perhaps #2 is better because it does limit your range or just beyond visual range. It is hard because you are limited to what you can do with the radar in game because other outside forces do not play against it. In short, this radar would work in a Raptor

[jmr]

Hitman, how are you verifying your ranges? Auto targeting enabled?

Hmmm I'm still torn as to which option to vote for. It would be nice to have the ability to resolve close-in contacts on the scope but I suppose the stadimeter will suffice at that range. In poor visibility echo ranging will nail your range down AND send it to the TDC. I would like to hear what others' opinion on your options before voting.

[Sailor Steve]

I'd vote for whichever one was historically correct, if that can be found out.

As for the 30,000-yard limitation on the stock one, were those radars any good at that range?

[Anvart]

Originally Posted by Hitman

...
A-Scope range scale is NOT linear, but algorythmic, hence the divisions are not the same and the rightmost ones are more cramped and difficult to read.
...

In stock game we have logarithmic (on basis 10) scale of distances ...
For the best reading of the big distances (the right part of the scale) you can reduce the logarithm basis (for example to 6) ... and on the contrary...
It's parameter "LogFactor" in RadarView controller ...

[Stealhead]

I like the stock ones though i agree with the others when they say that the radar is perfect. It dose not seem to have been as bang on at as long of range in real life. Then there is the fact that it does not read things like splashes which the real thing could at closer ranges.Perhaps based on how much it would take to change how the radar worked it is better left alone.Seems like second one makes you see less far but makes it easier at close range.

[Hitman]

In stock game we have logarithmic (on basis 10) scale of distances ...
For the best reading of the big distances (the right part of the scale) you can reduce the logarithm basis (for example to 6) ... and on the contrary...
It's parameter "LogFactor" in RadarView controller ...

Ahh nice one, will tweak with it and see

Anyway, and regarding the comments so far, I agree that the radar of that era wasn't that good at detecting things at long ranges, HOWEVER *if* it detected them, then the range shown would be accurate.

Hitman, how are you verifying your ranges? Auto targeting enabled?

Up until visual distance, yes. From then onwards I'm doing it the hard way: I have created a mission with targets at the correct distance and see how they show up in the screen, then edit the graphic accordingly. After a bit of practice, I'm quite fast with that, yet it is a long work.

[Rockin Robbins]

I support whatever is historically accurate. No matter what we do it appears that our accuracy will never be as good as the real thing, which is a shame. They had a working digital readout in yards.

[polyfiller]

Not sure of this helps at all .... I've been lead to believe the game doesn't make anything appear beyond 40 Km ..... however in some very extensive radar testing I've been doing for the TSWSM, the maximum distance I've been able to track a unit out to is 42.67 Km.

If anyone knows how to get stuff to appear well beyond 40 km ... I'm all ears.

[LukeFF]

I say keep it at option A, as it's both historically accurate, and not much other than battleships could be detected at 30,000 yards. Plus, the 1945 edition of the Radar Operator's Manual notes that the maximum reliable range was, in fact, 30,000 yards.

[Anvart]

At first ... my native system is metrical system ...
Second ...
I would like to have historically true parametres ...

[ichso]

I don't have used radar in the campaign myself yet but I would also opt for the historical accurate version.

[Hitman]

LOL so the most of you admit that 40.000 yards is the maximum reasonable and usable distance, and that 40.000 to 60.000 is just empty space but then you prefer 60.000 because of its historical value?

OK, OK, so be it

Unless a dramatic change in the poll takes place, 3.000/20.000/60.000 will be the scale used

Not sure of this helps at all .... I've been lead to believe the game doesn't make anything appear beyond 40 Km ..... however in some very extensive radar testing I've been doing for the TSWSM, the maximum distance I've been able to track a unit out to is 42.67 Km.

If anyone knows how to get stuff to appear well beyond 40 km ... I'm all ears.

That's with Trigger Maru, which I have no idea if it tweaked the sensor, and of course the game seems to have some sort of random component where you might detect targets at longer ranges in certain conditions.

[Hitman]

UPDATE:

I'm very happy to report that Anvart's advice wroked as a charm and has allowed me to make all division in the screen equal, thus allowing effectively to create precision scales with high accurancy and in a quick time

Seems that finally different options could be available, after all, but the 60.000 one will ne the first to come out.

Thanks for the input guys!

[jmr]

Do you need help testing, Hitman?