[TEC]How to configure SJ to report Fishing boats, Sampans etc?

[aanker]

How to configure SJ to report Fishing boats, Sampans etc?

Just for the heck of it I decided to look at my SJ and was surprised to see a spike at approx 15,000 yds that after Visual Sighting turned out to be a Fishing boat and a Sampan. I have noticed before that while I can spot them on SJ, I don't get a report from my operator. Instead, my Deck Watch reports them at approx 5 nm.

Anyone know how and what files I would need to edit to receive SJ reports of Fishing Boats, Sampans & Junks similar to those received for a Maru?

Thanks,

Art

[banjo]

I always assumed the game didn't report boats like that because they were wood/sail and didn't show up on radar. Then, like you, I discovered if you go to the SJ station they do show up. I now assume the game just handles them as if they did not show up, which in RL given the capabilities of the radar back then, they probably didn't. No idea how to change that.

[aanker]

Originally Posted by banjo

I always assumed the game didn't report boats like that because they were wood/sail and didn't show up on radar.

Thanks Banjo, I have been thinking that as well - well, almost. One would think that they would be picked up by at least 12,000 yards however, even though they are wood & sail. 60' masts or something close to that.

Radar became so good during the War that I could swear I remember hearing somewhere that it was even picking up the snorkels of German U-Boats resulting in keeping them down.... after the "Happy Times" anyway.

I've been going through files of ships that are detectable on SJ trying to find some kind of a "flag" that signals they are detectable and at what distance.... A huge BB with its pagoda tower should be more detectable than a tiny 2,000 ton Maru for example. Some file must have this info.... lol

Maybe I am taking the wrong approach to this problem. Arrgh! - for that matter land should be detectable as well.

Art

Edit - maybe I'll check out the Flying Dutchman to see why he is spotted.

[jmardlin]

I know that the radar used on the Iowa class could detect shell splashes so I would think that it would detect those as well.

[Nisgeis]

Not only that, but also shells in flight, which the manual says 'can be quite disconcerting to watch'. It describes the spike racing towards you as looking like 'a mouse running under a blanket'.

I can't remember which version, but one of the patches removed sampans from radar reports, as people were complainig about having to stop every few seconds whiclst in high TC, not sure if it was a .dat change or an internal engine change though.

[LukeFF]

Historically, SJ radar could pick up sampans and junks, but it also depended on the size of the target. Fluckey mentions picking up a lot of junks with SJ on one of Barb's patrols.

As for re-configuring the reporting of junks and sampans by the radarman, it's probably hard-coded and something we can't alter.

On the issue of different size ships being picked up at different ranges by radar, I have a beta version of RFB now being tested that (at least by my limited testing) allows the radar to pick up larger targets at longer ranges.

[aanker]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

I can't remember which version, but one of the patches removed sampans from radar reports, as people were complainig about having to stop every few seconds whiclst in high TC, not sure if it was a .dat change or an internal engine change though.

I think it is internal (I hope I am wrong).

Changes in Patch v1.3

GAMEPLAY CHANGES

1. All Sensors have been tuned for a more realistic performance
2. All ship gunners now improve the precision of their shooting in time
3. Small, irrelevant, units don't show up on the map or clutter the sensors
4. The radar and hydrophone won't detect units that don't have a signature of that kind (sampans, rowboats, etc)
5. New orders received by the player are presented through a radio message pop-up.

D'oh - and I had the SJ working perfectly in 1.2 after the outstanding radar fix/mod started way back by Mraah, ref, Redwine - oh heck, a whole lot of people.

I'm not giving up the ship just yet though....

Art

Edit - sorry LukeFF - I missed your post when I was trying to remember who to credit. I sure am looking forward to RFB.

sounds like its time for you to do a new install to get those unpatched files to disect

[aanker]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

sounds like its time for you to do a new install to get those unpatched files to disect

Unfortunately the exe's can't be dissected... and it's probably illegal - however:

Changes in Patch v1.3

GAMEPLAY CHANGES

1. All Sensors have been tuned for a more realistic performance
2. All ship gunners now improve the precision of their shooting in time
3. Small, irrelevant, units don't show up on the map or clutter the sensors
4. The radar and hydrophone won't detect units that don't have a signature of that kind (sampans, rowboats, etc)
5. New orders received by the player are presented through a radio message pop-up.

They mention units. Do SJ and Hydrophones exclude reporting based on "UnitType" like: 104, 105, 15, and 106... etc?

Some Marus that are picked up on SJ:

[UnitClass]
ClassName=PLConteVerde
UnitType=109

[UnitClass]
ClassName=OLNippon
UnitType=101

[UnitClass]
ClassName=OMBuzyun
UnitType=101

[UnitClass]
ClassName=KSCSTaihosan
UnitType=102

==============================
No SJ reports:

[UnitClass]
ClassName=JPFish01
UnitType=104

[UnitClass]
ClassName=NSampan01
UnitType=104

[UnitClass]
ClassName=LifeboatLarge
UnitType=105

[UnitClass]
ClassName=LifeboatSmall
UnitType=105

[UnitClass]
ClassName=Landed_H6K
UnitType=15
DisplayName=H6K Floatplane

==============================
Netherlands:

For fun:
[UnitClass]
ClassName=Frigate
UnitType=11
.....
[Unit 1]
Name=The Flying Dutchman
- (he is picked up on SJ )
------------------------------
More Netherlands:

[UnitClass]
ClassName=FishingBoat2
UnitType=104

[UnitClass]
ClassName=PCTrawler
UnitType=0

But maybe it's not that simple to just change the UnitType; a TugBoat is a UnitType 104 and I think it is picked up - not sure:

[UnitClass]
ClassName=TugBoat
UnitType=104

[UnitClass]
ClassName=Survivor
UnitType=106

What kind of a can of worms am I opening by changing the UnitType of a Fishing Boat I wonder? I am not a ship builder like some here are...

Art

Originally Posted by aanker

Unfortunately the exe's can't be dissected... and it's probably illegal - however:
They mention units. Do SJ and Hydrophones exclude reporting based on "UnitType" like: 104, 105, 15, and 106... etc?

But maybe it's not that simple to just change the UnitType; a TugBoat is a UnitType 104 and I think it is picked up - not sure:

What kind of a can of worms am I opening by changing the UnitType of a Fishing Boat I wonder? I am not a ship builder like some here are...

Art

what i was refering to was replacing the new sensors file with the pre patched version

[aanker]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

what i was refering to was replacing the new sensors file with the pre patched version

I'll compare Redwines Sensors_sub_US.sim etc to see but I think the problem is the 1.5 exe.

Problems with the 'exe' ....... now that's funny! .... LMAO

Art

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by aanker

What kind of a can of worms am I opening by changing the UnitType of a Fishing Boat I wonder? I am not a ship builder like some here are...

It's likely you'll cause a crash when a campaign file calls for that certain ship and there's a unit ID conflict.

[Hitman]

Radar became so good during the War that I could swear I remember hearing somewhere that it was even picking up the snorkels of German U-Boats resulting in keeping them down.... after the "Happy Times" anyway.

IIRC it's basically a matter of the wave length they operate in. If the wave is too large, they will fail to detect objects that are not at least as big as the wave (f.e. the exposed top of a periscope). At the end of the war radar technology was as perfected as to work in the 1cm wave, so it could detect very small objects if exposed enough time, like periscopes and snorkels

Anyway I don't care too much about sampans and such not being reported, I prefer to think that my radar crew identifies the signal as something very small and doesn't call me to the bridge for that.

What I would really like to see is a more recognizable different signal strength depending in size of the target.

[aanker]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

It's likely you'll cause a crash when a campaign file calls for that certain ship and there's a unit ID conflict.

Thanks. Maybe I'll make a 'mini campaign' set of layers on a separate install that doesn't call those ID's to find out how SH4 likes it.

Originally Posted by Hitman

Anyway I don't care too much about sampans and such not being reported, I prefer to think that my radar crew identifies the signal as something very small and doesn't call me to the bridge for that.

What I would really like to see is a more recognizable different signal strength depending in size of the target.

Agreed, that spike on my SJ above looks like a SBB. I like to avoid fishing boats and sampans which is why I would like some advance notice from my crew before the Visual Sighting at 5 nm.

[gimpy117]

yes! we need to be able to find them so they cannot alert bungo pete.

however In RSRD he does say it can pick up life boats...