Position Keeper Question

mheil · 03-19-09, 10:43 AM

I have been trying manual targeting with the position keeper with a small measure of success - lots of little tweaking back and forth to make sure the PK is tracking correctly when I noticed it appreared that the PK does not take into account that your sub is also changing position. In other words, if I am tracking a target that I am perpendicular to and the range is 600 yards the PK will show that target as if the sub is not moving - if I'm moving at 4 knots then the PK's sloution will be off - it will be tracking as if the target is futher away. This will have the torps track incorrectly. I find myself having to readjust the range and the AOB to get the PK to track correctly - Or use the O'Kane method.

AVGWarhawk · 03-19-09, 11:28 AM

Do you turn the PK on? You should not have to nor want to using the O'Kane Method.

Soundman · 03-19-09, 06:34 PM

Ditto AVG. Contrarily, the PK DOES factor in your moving position, and quite well. Beside validating your input of data, it is valuble to use while your boat is maneuvering into a good postion to fire, as long as the target's couse and speed remain constant. Make sure you turn it on after entering (accurate) data. You can also update the info (solution) on the fly as the situation changes. Try an experiment whereby you run parallel to the target and match it's speed and you will see the firing solution will change very little, if at all. If you are matching course and speed "exactly", your solution WILL remain constant and accurate if you entered the exact course, speed and AOB.

AVGWarhawk · 03-19-09, 07:04 PM

Yes, absolutely, the PK will reflect what your sub is doing and the target is doing if your inputs are correct. If it is not, then something was not calculated correctly. If you set up the PK for the O''Kane method and do not turn it on, what you do are in essence is positioning your sub into the present solution you have dialed in. You set you AOB at 90 degrees and assure your sub is at 90 degrees AOB from the target when it passes you bow. You set the determined speed which you hope stays constant. As far as range, the PK allows up to what 1420 yards? So you get the nose of your sub somewhere around 1420 as the vessel is passing in front of it. You pre-set your solution and manuever the sub into that preset. No need to turn on the PK.

Fincuan · 03-19-09, 07:26 PM

No need for range in O'Kane method at all. You can set it to anywhere above a couple of hundred meters. It doesn't matter as long as the gyro angle is close to zero.

AVGWarhawk · 03-20-09, 09:37 AM

Yep. I still dial in 1420 or whatever the PK lets me. I have gotten to the point were I can pretty much judge the speed without using the 3 minute rule. So, after playing for a while I can see how skippers could shoot from the hip with success.

Soundman · 03-20-09, 12:59 PM

Quote:

As far as range, the PK allows up to what 1420 yards?

This thread http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...t=manual+range shows how to manually enter ranges beyond the standard 1420. It works wonderfully, especially after knowing longer ranges from your radar readings. If you scroll down to Munchausen's post, it will work better. You can then enter ranges of up to appoximately 11,000 yds.

BTW, it seems I remember something Rockin Robbins posted about an experiment he did firing torps with zero degrees AOB with differing ranges entered. If I recall correctly, he found that setting ranges at short distances caused some errors or inaccuracies and suggested entering longer ranges. Of course, this applies when using the O'Kane method, so I always set a longer range of at least 1500 yds. Hopefully he'll chime in here and explain it again.

AVGWarhawk · 03-20-09, 01:05 PM

Thank you very much soundman! I did not know this was fixed. I will see about making this change

Soundman · 03-20-09, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Thank you very much soundman! I did not know this was fixed. I will see about making this change

Your more than welcome.

Once you get fixed you'll love it ! One thing to point out...I think before this correction, we dragged the dial to the right didn't we?....Anyway, after the fix, you will drag to the left (counter clockwise). Either way, i'm certain you'll figure it out.

mheil · 03-20-09, 08:29 PM

When I use the O'Kane method I do not turn on the PK. Maybe I'm not quite putting the data in correctly and the tracking error I'm seeing is a result of a few small errors.

03-19-09, 10:43 AM	#1
mheil Loader Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 81 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 0	Position Keeper Question I have been trying manual targeting with the position keeper with a small measure of success - lots of little tweaking back and forth to make sure the PK is tracking correctly when I noticed it appreared that the PK does not take into account that your sub is also changing position. In other words, if I am tracking a target that I am perpendicular to and the range is 600 yards the PK will show that target as if the sub is not moving - if I'm moving at 4 knots then the PK's sloution will be off - it will be tracking as if the target is futher away. This will have the torps track incorrectly. I find myself having to readjust the range and the AOB to get the PK to track correctly - Or use the O'Kane method.

03-19-09, 06:34 PM	#3
Soundman Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 617 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	Ditto AVG. Contrarily, the PK DOES factor in your moving position, and quite well. Beside validating your input of data, it is valuble to use while your boat is maneuvering into a good postion to fire, as long as the target's couse and speed remain constant. Make sure you turn it on after entering (accurate) data. You can also update the info (solution) on the fly as the situation changes. Try an experiment whereby you run parallel to the target and match it's speed and you will see the firing solution will change very little, if at all. If you are matching course and speed "exactly", your solution WILL remain constant and accurate if you entered the exact course, speed and AOB. __________________ RVAH-9 RA-5C Vigilante at NAS Sanford, Fl 1966 The coolest plane few have heard of!

03-19-09, 11:28 AM	#2
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Do you turn the PK on? You should not have to nor want to using the O'Kane Method.

03-19-09, 07:04 PM	#4
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Yes, absolutely, the PK will reflect what your sub is doing and the target is doing if your inputs are correct. If it is not, then something was not calculated correctly. If you set up the PK for the O''Kane method and do not turn it on, what you do are in essence is positioning your sub into the present solution you have dialed in. You set you AOB at 90 degrees and assure your sub is at 90 degrees AOB from the target when it passes you bow. You set the determined speed which you hope stays constant. As far as range, the PK allows up to what 1420 yards? So you get the nose of your sub somewhere around 1420 as the vessel is passing in front of it. You pre-set your solution and manuever the sub into that preset. No need to turn on the PK.

03-19-09, 07:26 PM	#5
Fincuan Admiral Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Suomi, sauna, puukko, perkele Posts: 2,346 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	No need for range in O'Kane method at all. You can set it to anywhere above a couple of hundred meters. It doesn't matter as long as the gyro angle is close to zero.

03-20-09, 09:37 AM	#6
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Yep. I still dial in 1420 or whatever the PK lets me. I have gotten to the point were I can pretty much judge the speed without using the 3 minute rule. So, after playing for a while I can see how skippers could shoot from the hip with success.

03-20-09, 01:05 PM	#8
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Thank you very much soundman! I did not know this was fixed. I will see about making this change

03-20-09, 08:29 PM	#10
mheil Loader Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 81 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 0	When I use the O'Kane method I do not turn on the PK. Maybe I'm not quite putting the data in correctly and the tracking error I'm seeing is a result of a few small errors.