From "The Other Side"

Henry Wood · 03-21-09, 01:51 PM

Hi all,

After a thread about Flower Class Corvettes the other day - I never ever found the pics yet, were they published? - I'm in the middle of watching the movie "The Cruel Sea" once again, which to me, gives about the only decent fictional representation of the Battle Of The Atlantic (and a Gibralter escort run) from the point of view of the "other side", i.e. the British, from my usual standpoint of a U-boat commander in the Kriegsmarine.

It's unusual watching the battle from the other side, especially the likes of the scene where the corvette Captain (played by Jack Hawkins) continues his pursuit of a suspected U-boat right through a line of floating survivors from a torpedoed ship and drops depth charges amongst them. There are very loud and scurrilous cries from his own crew because of this action, which I believe was based on a true incident during the war.

I find I want to change hats! I want to don a R.N. Captain's hat and go hunting the scoundrels (which has been me for the past few years!) and dish out some well deserved punishment to them (me!) for what they have done.

The only problem is, I believe, there is absolutely no surface ship replica game to come anywhere near to the same standard of SHIII? I do own Destroyer Command but never played it much because there is not *that* immersion factor so apparent in SHIII. If only someone could invent a game called "The Cruel Sea", taking place on a Flower Class Corvette, and including No. 1 Officers rubbing their hands over "snorkers", and also having the very same immersion factor of SHIII, that would indeed be heaven.

Meanwhile, I have just recharged my beer glass so shall go back to "The Cruel Sea" and check for comments later.

Torplexed · 03-21-09, 01:58 PM

Yes...sadly there is nothing like this except the aforementioned Destroyer Command....and it mostly concentrated on USN destroyers, although I think some mods changed this. I keep hoping for a DC2 someday as Destroyer Command's 2002 graphics are falling way behind the times. However, it might be difficult to gin up as much player interest as historically many convoys and their escorts crossed the Atlantic safely without sighting so much as a periscope. At least in a U-Boat you are proactively on the hunt even if you can't catch anything.

Sailor Steve · 03-21-09, 02:02 PM

The best part of Destroyer Command was the adversarial multiplay with Silent Hunter II. We had some great times at the Sub Club back in those days. Many of us have complained that there is no DC2 on the boards. That kind of multiplay in today's graphics environment would be my dream - that plus a realistic convoy escort sim, which would have to be part of the same game.

As for movies, I have a taped copy of this one:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035757/

I'm amazed that no one has ever released it on DVD.

Henry Wood · 03-21-09, 02:11 PM

Hi Torplexed,

I cannot find the "quote" button so I'm replying to you from memory

Yes, even in the actual movie, the Captain mentions that there were so few U-boats in the early days that they sailed many times across the Atlantic without even sight of a single periscope.

Do you know, I have not gone back to watching it yet because I know some real bad things happen after the "Gibralter Run" when I took my break from the movie? I cannot remember what does happen but I know I have a funny feeling in the pit of my stomach that all is not going to go well.

Sometimes I have that same kind of premonition when I boot up SHIII, I get like a "tingling" feeling all over and feel I am heading for trouble. Often it does not work out that way, then I say to myself: "What the hell were you worrying about?" but I suppose I am always worrying about my crew.

A lot of people always said I worried too much when I was still working!

NOW I am going back to "THE CRUEL SEA" !!!

Henry Wood · 03-21-09, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The best part of Destroyer Command was the adversarial multiplay with Silent Hunter II. We had some great times at the Sub Club back in those days. Many of us have complained that there is no DC2 on the boards. That kind of multiplay in today's graphics environment would be my dream - that plus a realistic convoy escort sim, which would have to be part of the same game.

As for movies, I have a taped copy of this one:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035757/

I'm amazed that no one has ever released it on DVD.

Hi Sailor Steve,

I have delayed my re-entry to "The Cruel Sea" once again after seeing your post. I had not heard of that movie but it is now in my evergrowing notes of things to watch for.

As you say, today's graphics could cope well with that sort of "game". I have just bought a new computer solely to be able to play SHIII + every available mod I might wish to add to it in the numerous copies I have installed. I installed a few other games on it as soon as I got it, including Destroyer Command, Fighting Steel and some others. When I told the supplier my only interest in "games" was SHIII he said I would be well over-equipped, but I don't know what's coming next, after watching GW grow and grow over the years so I bought the best I could afford.

Anyhoo! I only took a break a while ago to pour another beer. I just poured another one - and a whisky too - so I better get back and pay attention to my movie.

'Til later!

Sailor Steve · 03-22-09, 03:17 PM

I presume you're familiar with The Enemy Below. Not only a fun movie presenting both sides of the battle (except these days I can't get away from that awful fake 'u-boat' interior). Still, one of the all-time greats.
http://www.amazon.com/Enemy-Below-Ro...7752582&sr=1-1
It was also the inspiration for the Star Trek episode that first introduced the Romulans!

But back to The Cruel Sea. I finally saw the movie for the first time while at the Houston Subsim meet back in October. I thought it followed the book nicely, but had to leave a lot out. I've also read Monsarrat at Sea, a collection of short stories and actual wartime accounts from the author, who actually was the First Lieutenant in the book and film. Unlike his fictional counterpart, he went on to become a corvette captain in his own right.

Here's the review I wrote back when I read it:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...9&postcount=90

RoaldLarsen · 03-22-09, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I presume you're familiar with The Enemy Below. Not only a fun movie presenting both sides of the battle (except these days I can't get away from that awful fake 'u-boat' interior). Still, one of the all-time greats.
...

I read the book before I saw the movie. As often happens when one does this, the movie was a disappointment, not only because the movie transfomed a RN Western Approaches destroyer into a USN DE, and the u-boat into something almost the size of a cruise ship. Even the book required a fair amount of suspension of disbelief.

In contrast, Monsarrat's works have an aura of authenticity that I have yet to see matched for the allied navies of that era and theatre of operations.

Pepe le Moko · 03-22-09, 09:43 PM

I read the book recently, not a masterpiece but yes it is interesting to see the whole thing from the other side.

I am reading Iron Coffin now while playing SHIII and it is funny to see the difference between the two, how the escorts, destroyers etc thought the U boats were like predators trying to hunt the flock of hapless sheeps they are trying to protect and how it was unfair and disheartening to see them sunk one after the other.

The U boats captains on the other hand like Werner in his book thought they were getting persecuted. He uses this word a lot and it is kinda ironic when you think about it because basically they were trying to sunk helpless ships, well in the begining at least.

I thought the name of the first ship was a bit silly though, it was the Compass Rose or something i think.

UnterseeBoogeyMan · 03-22-09, 10:27 PM

Haven't read the book yet but just saw the movie tonight. Overall, it was a good film. Heartbreaking moment when the captain had to drop depth charges on top of the men in the water. It'd be nice to see a re-make of this in the near future.

One of the many reasons why this forum rocks; I had never heard of the title until I saw it on the boards. Thanks all for sharing about this. If you get a chance, read SubKiller by Donald Mcintyre (not hi-jacking the thread,just sharing back). He was a DD captain that actually patrolled with Walker a few times. Good for understanding their experiences and the tactics that evolved.

Puster Bill · 03-23-09, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepe le Moko

I read the book recently, not a masterpiece but yes it is interesting to see the whole thing from the other side.

I am reading Iron Coffin now while playing SHIII and it is funny to see the difference between the two, how the escorts, destroyers etc thought the U boats were like predators trying to hunt the flock of hapless sheeps they are trying to protect and how it was unfair and disheartening to see them sunk one after the other.

The U boats captains on the other hand like Werner in his book thought they were getting persecuted. He uses this word a lot and it is kinda ironic when you think about it because basically they were trying to sunk helpless ships, well in the begining at least.

I thought the name of the first ship was a bit silly though, it was the Compass Rose or something i think.

You have to remember a couple of facts:

1. The events in "The Cruel Sea" happen from 1939 to 1943 when the Germans had the upper hand, for the most part.

2. Werner's "Iron Coffins", on the other hand, is mostly about the war from 1942 to 1945, when the Allies had the upper hand. Werner didn't get a boat of his own until 1944.

What really strikes me as incongruous is the defeatist tone of the movie "Das Boot". It is supposed to happen in October of 1941, when the U-bootwaffe was near the height of it's power. It should have been set in October of 1943, when the tide had quite clearly turned against them.

Oneshot/Onekill · 03-24-09, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puster Bill

You have to remember a couple of facts:

1. The events in "The Cruel Sea" happen from 1939 to 1943 when the Germans had the upper hand, for the most part.

2. Werner's "Iron Coffins", on the other hand, is mostly about the war from 1942 to 1945, when the Allies had the upper hand. Werner didn't get a boat of his own until 1944.

What really strikes me as incongruous is the defeatist tone of the movie "Das Boot". It is supposed to happen in October of 1941, when the U-bootwaffe was near the height of it's power. It should have been set in October of 1943, when the tide had quite clearly turned against them.

I couldn't agree with you more about Das Boot, I was just thinking the same thing yesterday, or the day before.

That is the ONLY problem i have with this movie. ASW tatics were getting better by 1941, especially the way aircraft were being deployed against the U-boat, but by no means had the allies got even close to equal or more footing. I do think that the movie hit the defeatist attitude right on the head, when they found out they were ordered to La Spezia by way of the Gibralter straits, especially after spending over 2 months at SEA already.

03-21-09, 01:51 PM	#1
Henry Wood Sparky Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 150 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	From "The Other Side" Hi all, After a thread about Flower Class Corvettes the other day - I never ever found the pics yet, were they published? - I'm in the middle of watching the movie "The Cruel Sea" once again, which to me, gives about the only decent fictional representation of the Battle Of The Atlantic (and a Gibralter escort run) from the point of view of the "other side", i.e. the British, from my usual standpoint of a U-boat commander in the Kriegsmarine. It's unusual watching the battle from the other side, especially the likes of the scene where the corvette Captain (played by Jack Hawkins) continues his pursuit of a suspected U-boat right through a line of floating survivors from a torpedoed ship and drops depth charges amongst them. There are very loud and scurrilous cries from his own crew because of this action, which I believe was based on a true incident during the war. I find I want to change hats! I want to don a R.N. Captain's hat and go hunting the scoundrels (which has been me for the past few years!) and dish out some well deserved punishment to them (me!) for what they have done. The only problem is, I believe, there is absolutely no surface ship replica game to come anywhere near to the same standard of SHIII? I do own Destroyer Command but never played it much because there is not that immersion factor so apparent in SHIII. If only someone could invent a game called "The Cruel Sea", taking place on a Flower Class Corvette, and including No. 1 Officers rubbing their hands over "snorkers", and also having the very same immersion factor of SHIII, that would indeed be heaven. Meanwhile, I have just recharged my beer glass so shall go back to "The Cruel Sea" and check for comments later.

03-21-09, 02:02 PM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	The best part of Destroyer Command was the adversarial multiplay with Silent Hunter II. We had some great times at the Sub Club back in those days. Many of us have complained that there is no DC2 on the boards. That kind of multiplay in today's graphics environment would be my dream - that plus a realistic convoy escort sim, which would have to be part of the same game. As for movies, I have a taped copy of this one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035757/ I'm amazed that no one has ever released it on DVD. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-22-09, 03:17 PM	#6
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I presume you're familiar with The Enemy Below. Not only a fun movie presenting both sides of the battle (except these days I can't get away from that awful fake 'u-boat' interior). Still, one of the all-time greats. http://www.amazon.com/Enemy-Below-Ro...7752582&sr=1-1 It was also the inspiration for the Star Trek episode that first introduced the Romulans! But back to The Cruel Sea. I finally saw the movie for the first time while at the Houston Subsim meet back in October. I thought it followed the book nicely, but had to leave a lot out. I've also read Monsarrat at Sea, a collection of short stories and actual wartime accounts from the author, who actually was the First Lieutenant in the book and film. Unlike his fictional counterpart, he went on to become a corvette captain in his own right. Here's the review I wrote back when I read it: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...9&postcount=90 __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-21-09, 01:58 PM	#2
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Yes...sadly there is nothing like this except the aforementioned Destroyer Command....and it mostly concentrated on USN destroyers, although I think some mods changed this. I keep hoping for a DC2 someday as Destroyer Command's 2002 graphics are falling way behind the times. However, it might be difficult to gin up as much player interest as historically many convoys and their escorts crossed the Atlantic safely without sighting so much as a periscope. At least in a U-Boat you are proactively on the hunt even if you can't catch anything.

03-21-09, 02:11 PM	#4
Henry Wood Sparky Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 150 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	Hi Torplexed, I cannot find the "quote" button so I'm replying to you from memory Yes, even in the actual movie, the Captain mentions that there were so few U-boats in the early days that they sailed many times across the Atlantic without even sight of a single periscope. Do you know, I have not gone back to watching it yet because I know some real bad things happen after the "Gibralter Run" when I took my break from the movie? I cannot remember what does happen but I know I have a funny feeling in the pit of my stomach that all is not going to go well. Sometimes I have that same kind of premonition when I boot up SHIII, I get like a "tingling" feeling all over and feel I am heading for trouble. Often it does not work out that way, then I say to myself: "What the hell were you worrying about?" but I suppose I am always worrying about my crew. A lot of people always said I worried too much when I was still working! NOW I am going back to "THE CRUEL SEA" !!!

03-22-09, 09:43 PM	#8
Pepe le Moko A-ganger Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 73 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	I read the book recently, not a masterpiece but yes it is interesting to see the whole thing from the other side. I am reading Iron Coffin now while playing SHIII and it is funny to see the difference between the two, how the escorts, destroyers etc thought the U boats were like predators trying to hunt the flock of hapless sheeps they are trying to protect and how it was unfair and disheartening to see them sunk one after the other. The U boats captains on the other hand like Werner in his book thought they were getting persecuted. He uses this word a lot and it is kinda ironic when you think about it because basically they were trying to sunk helpless ships, well in the begining at least. I thought the name of the first ship was a bit silly though, it was the Compass Rose or something i think.

03-22-09, 10:27 PM	#9
UnterseeBoogeyMan Ensign Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Land of Cholla Cactus and Red Chile Posts: 224 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Haven't read the book yet but just saw the movie tonight. Overall, it was a good film. Heartbreaking moment when the captain had to drop depth charges on top of the men in the water. It'd be nice to see a re-make of this in the near future. One of the many reasons why this forum rocks; I had never heard of the title until I saw it on the boards. Thanks all for sharing about this. If you get a chance, read SubKiller by Donald Mcintyre (not hi-jacking the thread,just sharing back). He was a DD captain that actually patrolled with Walker a few times. Good for understanding their experiences and the tactics that evolved.