Convoy attack tactics in SH3 vs. tactics of real life U-boats.

Agiel7 · 02-10-09, 11:24 PM

I've read that most U-boats conducted torpedo attacks during the night while surfaced, since the Allies' ASDIC wasn't as effective on surfaced boats. However, I've never used this tactic since the Brit's destroyer crews have been eating their carrots. I'm not sure if this tactic was properly modeled into the game, so have any of you tried it?

Sailor Steve · 02-10-09, 11:29 PM

Many have tried, many have died.

I think the game has trouble with night and day. It seems to be a little too hard to do night surfaced attacks early in the war, pre-radar. That said, I haven't played a real career in quite some time, and I intend to use that tactic where appropriate.

We'll see.

A Very Super Market · 02-10-09, 11:51 PM

Detection ranges had to be changed for more realistic attacks, though it is admittedly too difficult for the night surface attacks. Even during '41, a night attack was feasible, the tactic only became obsolete when RADAR was developed, and submerging became the dominant part of U-boot life.

GoldenRivet · 02-11-09, 12:44 AM

i have a lot of success with this tactic. run decks awash and maintain a slow speed.

basically you have to observe the destroyers guarding the flanks, you will notice that they break off into a search pattern every few minutes.

if you can place yourself off to the side of the convoy say.. 1500 - 2000 meters from the nearest merchant and make your attack when this destroyer is breaking off onto a search pattern it will work out.

as soon as the last fish leaves the tube, break off and leave the area making good speed - but not flank speed - just a good 8 or 9 knots.

by the time the first torpedo impacts its target alerting everyone to your presence... you should be a good 3 to 5 KM away, at this time you can move ahead flank.

search lights and starshells will fill the air, but as long as you keep the convoy on your tail, stay out of the searchlights and starshell lights and make good speed... the tactic should work out for you.

I wouldnt go trying it after 42 though.

Hitman · 02-11-09, 09:46 AM

You an also open sim.cfg in "My Documents/SH3/Data/Cfg" and tweak it like I did:

[Visual]
Detection time=2 ;[s] ;was 0.5
Sensitivity=0.01 ;(0..1)
Fog factor=1.25 ;[>=0]
Light factor=2.8 ;[>=0] ;was 2.0
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=350 ;[m2]
Enemy speed factor=15 ;[kt]

This will make the enemy a bit more blind at night. But be careful, you can easily overshoot....

tomfon · 02-11-09, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agiel7

I've read that most U-boats conducted torpedo attacks during the night while surfaced, since the Allies' ASDIC wasn't as effective on surfaced boats. However, I've never used this tactic since the Brit's destroyer crews have been eating their carrots. I'm not sure if this tactic was properly modeled into the game, so have any of you tried it?

It is do-able and the only way to find out how is to give it a try.

But as people have already said its difficult enough after '42 and impossible
'43 onwards.
Suggestion? Go for it! Its, at least, the most satisfactory way of attacking.
The alternative is Hitmans suggestion.

nikimcbee · 02-11-09, 09:54 AM

Does it auto detect you a certain distance?

Kapt Z · 02-11-09, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

i have a lot of success with this tactic. run decks awash and maintain a slow speed.

basically you have to observe the destroyers guarding the flanks, you will notice that they break off into a search pattern every few minutes.

if you can place yourself off to the side of the convoy say.. 1500 - 2000 meters from the nearest merchant and make your attack when this destroyer is breaking off onto a search pattern it will work out.

as soon as the last fish leaves the tube, break off and leave the area making good speed - but not flank speed - just a good 8 or 9 knots.

by the time the first torpedo impacts its target alerting everyone to your presence... you should be a good 3 to 5 KM away, at this time you can move ahead flank.

search lights and starshells will fill the air, but as long as you keep the convoy on your tail, stay out of the searchlights and starshell lights and make good speed... the tactic should work out for you.

I wouldnt go trying it after 42 though.

I've used very similiar tactics with success up to spring '42. When the escorts have radar it's pointless.

Only thing I do different is not using decks awash. I like to come in from either flank between the lead escort and the first escort on each flank. There is a big hole there when you time it right. Plenty of time to fire some Ta's at medium speed at targets around 4500 yds, which means you should be able to reach to lead tanker or other large cargo in the center of the convoy. If you use map contacts it is quite easy to watch for your opportunity. Now that I play with the contacts off it is harder, but still possible.

mookiemookie · 02-11-09, 10:12 AM

I've done it. It's not easy, but it's all about decks awash, slow speed and pre-positioning your boat and keeping your aspect angle as small as possible. GoldenRivet's suggestion about waiting for the wing escorts to break off in their search pattern is good as well. Use that time to get in the escort screen and get to about 2000m away from the convoy and let fly with your torpedoes. Don't stick around to watch the fireworks, just concentrate on getting as much real estate between you and the escorts as possible while your fish are in the water.

Of course once the convoys start getting more heavily escorted, it makes it very difficult. Once they have radar, forget it altogether.

GoldenRivet · 02-11-09, 10:15 AM

want a real eye opener?

try a surfaced convoy attack and just as your getting into position the entire convoy changes course right toward you.

Kapt Z · 02-11-09, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

want a real eye opener?

try a surfaced convoy attack and just as your getting into position the entire convoy changes course right toward you.

Hah! That happened several careers ago. I had to crash dive to avoid being run over by a C3 cargo ship! Took me quite a while to set up a new attack after that.

Lt.Fillipidis · 02-11-09, 10:56 AM

Actually, i've had a similar encounter which is now placed in the "Museum of Oddities"
part of my brain.

The night was pitch black, the water was calm, no wind.
Couldnt see a Large Merchant on a 500m distance.
Anyways, i had damaged a destroyer but it didnt sunk.
The convoy was some kilometers away so i decide to approach that ship from the Bow
and shell it. Although i notice a shadow near me. It was a flower class which as by a miracle was heading back to the convoy, which sailed some km further, and at that time it was about 300m front left of me. After that bit of a shock, i decide to shell that first. I would take some shells too but that would go down first.
I fired at about the middle of the ship. The shell impacts and before the crew can load another round, the ship blows sky high.
After another omgshock, i shell the other destroyer and move on.

I caught up with the convoy and the sonarman reports a sinking.
A few mins later, another. The only thing i can imagine of is that the two remaining destroyers rammed each other as the alerted convoy was taking turns for quite some time.

USAMP1980 · 02-12-09, 01:56 PM

I use an interesting technique:

Upon discovering a convoy (preferable in front of) I set all my torpedos and open all my torpedo doors. The sound of this usually draws the attention of the escourts. If I have to, I Flank Speed so they hear me.
When you see an escourt coming towards you, turn towards her and put her at 0 or 180 degrees. - Click on "Ship:" this will give you the optimal torpedo depth for magnetic setting. When the escort is at 425 meters and closing.. Let her have it. I destroy the pursuing escort...
Then all the other retards rush my way in attempt to kill me. Having atleast 4 front torpedo tubes.. I quickly kill 4 more escourts (all of them). [Set steam torps to "Fast"! ]
Putting the enemy at dead 0 or 180 degrees makes manual settings easy.

Once the escourts are down.. I move to a safer distance (quickly). Set it up to where the convoy broad side to your 0 degrees... surface and man the deck gun and flak gun(s). This does bring their broad side guns to bear, but their gun crew stink. This makes your boat harder to hit windage wise. Then I destroy the convoy with the deck gun as crews reload my torpedos. By the time enemy reinforcements arrive... my tubes are hot and I submerge to periscope depth to unlease hell on the fleeing surviors. As the entire convoy is sinking in flames... I "Run Silent, Run Deep!" back to base.
I average 62,000 to 100,000 tons a patrol. I don't waste torpedoes on 2,000 ton ships. A well placed impact torpedo to the bulkhead will bring down a C-2, C-3 or equivilant in one shot.

This tactic works on vanilla SH3 and GWX3.0 ... but is more hazardous in GWXs due to the armed effency of the merchants. DO NOT GET TOO CLOSE to a flock of armed merchants.. combined they are like a darn cruiser.

In vanilla SH3.. I simply weave in and around the convoy and point blank range.. submerged first then surfaced with deck gun. The broken-arrow range causes the surronding escourts to fire at me.. yet hitting their own ships. If done properly.. the armed merchants will hit each other. In 1.4b I have cause the merchants to turn on each other in retalliation and finish each other off. Especially in the choas of night.

Not bad for an Army guy!

harzfeld · 02-13-09, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

i have a lot of success with this tactic. run decks awash and maintain a slow speed.

would run decks awash increase chance for destroyers to hear you? because decks awash is considered as running submerged? Sometimes the nearest I can get to escorts without being detected while on surface at any speed during very dark was around 2.5km away. That's in early year, but I haven't tried run deck awash just to get closer to escorts before. Is the speed the key? I guess I'll try that.

TarJak · 02-13-09, 04:22 AM

It can be done if you are careful and only before radar becomes ubiquitous.

Running decks awash is considered as running surfaced as long as you have crew on the tower. If you drop below about 7.8m your crew will button up and you run the risk of being picked up on passive sonar or asdic. On the surface they can't hear you unless you make noise by going too fast or shooting with flak or deck guns.

With OLC's environment it is much easier to run decks awash and make surface attacks as the visibility is closer to real life than in stock SHIII.

02-10-09, 11:24 PM	#1
Agiel7 Gunner Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 97 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Convoy attack tactics in SH3 vs. tactics of real life U-boats. I've read that most U-boats conducted torpedo attacks during the night while surfaced, since the Allies' ASDIC wasn't as effective on surfaced boats. However, I've never used this tactic since the Brit's destroyer crews have been eating their carrots. I'm not sure if this tactic was properly modeled into the game, so have any of you tried it?

02-10-09, 11:29 PM	#2
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Many have tried, many have died. I think the game has trouble with night and day. It seems to be a little too hard to do night surfaced attacks early in the war, pre-radar. That said, I haven't played a real career in quite some time, and I intend to use that tactic where appropriate. We'll see. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

02-10-09, 11:51 PM	#3
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Detection ranges had to be changed for more realistic attacks, though it is admittedly too difficult for the night surface attacks. Even during '41, a night attack was feasible, the tactic only became obsolete when RADAR was developed, and submerging became the dominant part of U-boot life. __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

02-11-09, 12:44 AM	#4
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	i have a lot of success with this tactic. run decks awash and maintain a slow speed. basically you have to observe the destroyers guarding the flanks, you will notice that they break off into a search pattern every few minutes. if you can place yourself off to the side of the convoy say.. 1500 - 2000 meters from the nearest merchant and make your attack when this destroyer is breaking off onto a search pattern it will work out. as soon as the last fish leaves the tube, break off and leave the area making good speed - but not flank speed - just a good 8 or 9 knots. by the time the first torpedo impacts its target alerting everyone to your presence... you should be a good 3 to 5 KM away, at this time you can move ahead flank. search lights and starshells will fill the air, but as long as you keep the convoy on your tail, stay out of the searchlights and starshell lights and make good speed... the tactic should work out for you. I wouldnt go trying it after 42 though. __________________

02-11-09, 09:46 AM	#5
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	You an also open sim.cfg in "My Documents/SH3/Data/Cfg" and tweak it like I did: [Visual] Detection time=2 ;[s] ;was 0.5 Sensitivity=0.01 ;(0..1) Fog factor=1.25 ;[>=0] Light factor=2.8 ;[>=0] ;was 2.0 Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0] Enemy surface factor=350 ;[m2] Enemy speed factor=15 ;[kt] This will make the enemy a bit more blind at night. But be careful, you can easily overshoot.... __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

02-11-09, 09:54 AM	#7
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Does it auto detect you a certain distance? __________________

02-11-09, 10:12 AM	#9
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	I've done it. It's not easy, but it's all about decks awash, slow speed and pre-positioning your boat and keeping your aspect angle as small as possible. GoldenRivet's suggestion about waiting for the wing escorts to break off in their search pattern is good as well. Use that time to get in the escort screen and get to about 2000m away from the convoy and let fly with your torpedoes. Don't stick around to watch the fireworks, just concentrate on getting as much real estate between you and the escorts as possible while your fish are in the water. Of course once the convoys start getting more heavily escorted, it makes it very difficult. Once they have radar, forget it altogether. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

02-11-09, 10:15 AM	#10
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	want a real eye opener? try a surfaced convoy attack and just as your getting into position the entire convoy changes course right toward you. __________________

02-11-09, 10:56 AM	#12
Lt.Fillipidis Weps Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Veria, Greece Posts: 365 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Actually, i've had a similar encounter which is now placed in the "Museum of Oddities" part of my brain. The night was pitch black, the water was calm, no wind. Couldnt see a Large Merchant on a 500m distance. Anyways, i had damaged a destroyer but it didnt sunk. The convoy was some kilometers away so i decide to approach that ship from the Bow and shell it. Although i notice a shadow near me. It was a flower class which as by a miracle was heading back to the convoy, which sailed some km further, and at that time it was about 300m front left of me. After that bit of a shock, i decide to shell that first. I would take some shells too but that would go down first. I fired at about the middle of the ship. The shell impacts and before the crew can load another round, the ship blows sky high. After another omgshock, i shell the other destroyer and move on. I caught up with the convoy and the sonarman reports a sinking. A few mins later, another. The only thing i can imagine of is that the two remaining destroyers rammed each other as the alerted convoy was taking turns for quite some time.

02-12-09, 01:56 PM	#13
USAMP1980 Watch Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 27 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	I use an interesting technique: Upon discovering a convoy (preferable in front of) I set all my torpedos and open all my torpedo doors. The sound of this usually draws the attention of the escourts. If I have to, I Flank Speed so they hear me. When you see an escourt coming towards you, turn towards her and put her at 0 or 180 degrees. - Click on "Ship:" this will give you the optimal torpedo depth for magnetic setting. When the escort is at 425 meters and closing.. Let her have it. I destroy the pursuing escort... Then all the other retards rush my way in attempt to kill me. Having atleast 4 front torpedo tubes.. I quickly kill 4 more escourts (all of them). [Set steam torps to "Fast"! ] Putting the enemy at dead 0 or 180 degrees makes manual settings easy. Once the escourts are down.. I move to a safer distance (quickly). Set it up to where the convoy broad side to your 0 degrees... surface and man the deck gun and flak gun(s). This does bring their broad side guns to bear, but their gun crew stink. This makes your boat harder to hit windage wise. Then I destroy the convoy with the deck gun as crews reload my torpedos. By the time enemy reinforcements arrive... my tubes are hot and I submerge to periscope depth to unlease hell on the fleeing surviors. As the entire convoy is sinking in flames... I "Run Silent, Run Deep!" back to base. I average 62,000 to 100,000 tons a patrol. I don't waste torpedoes on 2,000 ton ships. A well placed impact torpedo to the bulkhead will bring down a C-2, C-3 or equivilant in one shot. This tactic works on vanilla SH3 and GWX3.0 ... but is more hazardous in GWXs due to the armed effency of the merchants. DO NOT GET TOO CLOSE to a flock of armed merchants.. combined they are like a darn cruiser. In vanilla SH3.. I simply weave in and around the convoy and point blank range.. submerged first then surfaced with deck gun. The broken-arrow range causes the surronding escourts to fire at me.. yet hitting their own ships. If done properly.. the armed merchants will hit each other. In 1.4b I have cause the merchants to turn on each other in retalliation and finish each other off. Especially in the choas of night. Not bad for an Army guy! Last edited by USAMP1980; 02-14-09 at 11:43 AM.

02-13-09, 04:22 AM	#15
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	It can be done if you are careful and only before radar becomes ubiquitous. Running decks awash is considered as running surfaced as long as you have crew on the tower. If you drop below about 7.8m your crew will button up and you run the risk of being picked up on passive sonar or asdic. On the surface they can't hear you unless you make noise by going too fast or shooting with flak or deck guns. With OLC's environment it is much easier to run decks awash and make surface attacks as the visibility is closer to real life than in stock SHIII.