American Auto will not survive this crisis..

[Zachstar]

Why? How could this be you ask?

Two words..

Electric Mini.....


Well you may be thinking. Oh jeez not this again. Just a small car with a battery and a motor.. Been there and done that...

Problem is this is not just any old clunker of a electric car.. It is a fully electric 150 mile in 2 hour charge BEAST!!

Expensive? Oh yes.. But it is LIGHTYEARS ahead of the Volt and it's high cost is due to the cost of batteries that are soon to rapidly fall due to about 20 different breakthroughs.

Take a look at this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7760787.stm

As compared to the volt which MAY be out in 2010 after an extensive design process that will only result 40 miles per charge.

You want a reason why a bailout is useless? Here it is! Once the Mini-E, Zenn with EEstor, And various others hit the market. They will decimate the Volt's market as people want electric all the way to work and back and not for just 40 miles.

[August]

Short range, lack of space. I doubt it will be the slam dunk win you think it is...

[Zachstar]

Right now? No.. Gas is wayyy too cheap.

However, once recession (or depression) ends oil will skyrocket and this short term reprieve for the SUVs will end.

As for short range means little when the best thing the big 3 can come up with is a 40 mile electric.

Space? Minis are never known for space most use them for purposes that do not use the back seats. (Work drive, Sport, etc..) And also matters little when you got Zenn hot on the heels of it.

Toyota tore the big 3 a new one with a Hybrid that changed the face of high MPG driving. To this day they still do not have a hybrid that can compete. They shrugged off hybrid tech when they had a chance to take the lead and they are paying the price.

[August]

Its not only short range, it's the recharge time as well. Even a couple hour recharge means the vehicle is useless except for the short distance work commutes you mention.

I will agree that the Volt sounds worse by comparison but neither are going to be an adequate replacement for the internal combustion or hybrid vehicle.

[Hylander_1314]

As long as a hybrid or electric can pull my boat and fishing gear, and I can strap a deer to the hood from the hunt, I'd get one.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

American Auto will not survive this crisis..

Wanna bet?

Most people do not want an electric car. I sure don't.

[SteamWake]

A few other problems are overlooked as well as the short range and recharge time.

Inital investment costs are still to high compared to other small cars.

Speaking of small how the hell are you supposed to cram kids and all their crap into that little thing and maintain your sanity?

What about all the heavy metals used in the el cars construction. Many of which will not be recycled. What about that enviromental impact?

If you ever get in a crash god forbid those batteries ever get shorted out.... kabooom.

The life expectancy of such a car is about 100,000 miles under ideal conditoins. Once your past that the batteries will no longer take / hold a charge and the vehical is rendered useless. No use in trying to repair it... its shot, kaput, done.

Good luck on getting any kind of re-sale value out of it.

No Im sorry alot of things need to be considered and these cars while a decent stop gap are not the answer.

If the american public wanted these things then detriot would be stupid to not produce them. No Im afraid the american public by and large want their big honkin gas guzzeling vehicals. I see plenty of overgrown diesel dual axle trucks which typicall see no more work than hauling a sack of groceries home from the supermaket. Its their choice. Personally I find it stupid but it is their choice.

Its not supply and demand that puts the big 3 in jepordy. Its goverment regulation and the unions with their pensions that does.

Anyone remember when seat belts were an option? :hmm:

[UnderseaLcpl]

As long as no public funds go to developing/producing this junk, and no law ever says that I have to have a car like this.........whatever.

The American auto manufacturers already have one foot in the grave anyway and it is because they failed to produce something that people wanted to buy, so I guess it doesn't matter much, anyway.

[GoldenRivet]

The American auto industry needs to outgrow this muscle car mentality it has had since the 50s. i honestly cant understand (aside from a pure cash standpoint) why American cars like the trans am, mustang, and corvette are still even produced. These sports cars are produced for the purpose of (1) boosting buyer ego (2) burning fuel senselessly while their drivers hot rod all over town.

I don't see how an auto manufacturer can continue produce vehicles which boast anything less than 40-50 mpg and survive. My cobalt gets almost 30 miles per gallon and im still disappointed in its fuel economy.

given there are some parts of the USA where you just cant help it but have a "gas guzzler". Some people in Texas, Montana, Alaska and the like simply NEED trucks and four wheel vehicles to do their jobs out in the open country.

But its when i see people like this out driving around by themselves in a crew cab ford F-150 doing essentially nothing. There should be some sort of law... If you are driving around town in a big gas guzzling truck you had better be either (a) hauling a trailer with some sort of valuable cargo (b) hauling at least 2 other workers or (c) be able to prove beyond the shadow of doubt that you are en route to pick up the trailer or the workers.

But... You wont see a mini cooper hauling a cattle trailer to market so a few days later we can all have beef at the grocery store.

"All glory is fleeting"

"all things must end"

two quotes which come to mind when i think of the US Auto manufacturers.

I hate the fact that all those jobs will be lost, i really do.

I hope that the government see's fit to give all that "bailout money" to American based companies like "Aptera" who will be required to hire at least 75% of the displaced auto workers and they should be given a period of 5 years to mass produce an all electric, 4 seat vehicle which will sustain 70mph for a stretch of 250 miles... and it should be produced in numbers large enough to fill virtually every car dealership lot in the United States to 50% capacity.

theres your fossil fuel solution America.

these auto maker "dinosaurs" going extinct is probably a GOOD THING

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

why American cars like the trans am, mustang, and corvette are still even produced. These sports cars are produced for the purpose of (1) boosting buyer ego (2) burning fuel senselessly while their drivers hot rod all over town.

The answer is simple, its what the average consumer wants. Be it vanity, ego, or just thrills it is what they want. Simple as that.

If the gas prices rise again they will want something else. But in the meantime why wast money and resources on a product that very few want?

During the last fuel price spike you could buy those big SUV's for less than it cost to manufacture them. Now there back at their old prices again.

[GoldenRivet]

but is it not that sort of thinking that has brought us to this point?

"Oh gas prices are back down... everything is fine again!"

ummmmm.... anyone who ever said that cant see past the end of their nose!

gas prices will be up again... higher than ever, i promise you.

our strategy should not be reactionary in nature... we should be actively seeking a solution to our oil problem. not breathing a sigh of relief every time the prices relax a bit.

also... if you are going to quote me... quote the sentence fully...

"i honestly cant understand (aside from a pure cash standpoint) why American cars like the trans am, mustang, and corvette are still even produced.

[August]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

But its when i see people like this out driving around by themselves in a crew cab ford F-150 doing essentially nothing. There should be some sort of law... If you are driving around town in a big gas guzzling truck you had better be either (a) hauling a trailer with some sort of valuable cargo (b) hauling at least 2 other workers or (c) be able to prove beyond the shadow of doubt that you are en route to pick up the trailer or the workers.

I've seen this line of reasoning a lot GoldenRivet so please don't feel that this is directed solely at you, but did you ever think that the person driving around alone in that F-150 might be doing so because the pickup is the only vehicle he owns, and he just might have other valid uses for it besides the one he's using it for at the moment?

I mean it'd be nice to have a stable of cars and trucks matched to our various transportation needs but the truth of the matter is that most of us can afford just one vehicle. It's a lot of money to put a 2nd car on the road. Cost of the vehicle, taxes, insurance, maintenance, parking, all of that is going to likely far outweigh the extra gas required to drive the truck all the time.

[DeepIron]

As an aside, US auto makers aren't the only ones feeling the pain... I saw on our local news channel last night that BMW sales fell 26% worldwide in the last quarter...

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by August

I've seen this line of reasoning a lot GoldenRivet so please don't feel that this is directed solely at you, but did you ever think that the person driving around alone in that F-150 might be doing so because the pickup is the only vehicle he owns, and he just might have other valid uses for it besides the one he's using it for at the moment?

I mean it'd be nice to have a stable of cars and trucks matched to our various transportation needs but the truth of the matter is that most of us can afford just one vehicle. It's a lot of money to put a 2nd car on the road. Cost of the vehicle, taxes, insurance, maintenance, parking, all of that is going to likely far outweigh the extra gas required to drive the truck all the time.

you're absolutely right. and im in agreement with you, and i made room for that in the "stipulation" you quoted...

if the individual has a truck as his only vehicle but he needs it because of his work situation (hauling trailers, hauling stuff in the bed, towing equipment etc) thats great... no problem. i understand that he would obviously have to drive it in town for needs other than work at times.

however if average Joe blow works as a shoe salesman, and he buys the same exact truck "just because"... well there is something amiss there, he doesn't need it, and he could have purchased something a little less opulent like a Toyota Corolla.

if one person had done this... it would translate to the difference in using about 1250 gallons per year and 500 gallons per year.

if say... a mere 250,000 drivers in the entire country opted for a fuel efficient vehicle over a truck (assuming they didnt NEED the truck for work)... that would translate to nationwide fuel savings of approximately 187,500,000 gallons of gasoline... or about $370 Million worth.

i dont know about you... but i sure think that $370M would be doing a lot of good to the economy if spread elsewhere right about now.

[GoldenRivet]

sorry guys... im very opinionated about this issue... and i mean nothing personal by what i type here

but almost every American wants

1. to break away from dependency on foreign oil
2. to take better care of the environment even if in some small way
3. to be able to drive as much as we want for as cheaply as we can

the only problem is that there is a clear solution which will lead to all three of these things... and almost nobody in America actually wants to be a part of it.

this confuses me.