Today, 90 years ago

11-11-08, 04:51 AM

Today, 90 years ago, the great war came to an end.

Let's not forget the victims of the first mechanized war in world history, a war born purely out of nationalistic paranoia, war hysteria and power mongering on all sides, governments and populations alike.

I give a Salute to all the ppl fighting and dying in vain, no matter where they came from, Canada, France, USA, Austrialia, Turky, Germany, Russia, Austria, Hungary, Japan, Belgium, Italy, the list goes on. A whole generation wasted and the basis laid down for even more suffering 20 years later. This war was everything but "great".

pics taken from spiegel.de

Respenus · 11-11-08, 05:18 AM

I salute all those who have, do and will server their nation!

It was a bloody war, much more than we give it credit. A war far more revolutionary than the second world war and who's socio, economic and political impart was greater than it is today recognised.

I am ashamed to be a Slovenian today. Men fought for their land and for their nation at the Isonzo front. It does not matter we were on the opposite side that the Entente. It does not matter. The men in trenches fought for their lives and their land, not for a great ideal of freedom. Yet, we as a nation do not commemorate this occasion.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

Skybird · 11-11-08, 05:48 AM

A germannews article yesterday said that historians found 85-90% of all photos from battle and war in WWIwere bstaged fakes and showed no real battles, even if the scenes depicted were epic, but were taken during manouvers, or were put on stage. Reasons: propaganda, and to show a pictures of a clean war. How little man have changed. They said that they are in a process to re-assess the historic value of huge quantities of film and picture material from that time.

Now imagine what Philip K. Dick would have made of it. That it even did not happen!?

HunterICX · 11-11-08, 05:58 AM

''Lost but never, forgotten''

HunterICX

11-11-08, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

A germannews article yesterday said that historians found 85-90% of all photos from battle and war in WWIwere bstaged fakes and showed no real battles, even if the scenes depicted were epic, but were taken during manouvers, or were put on stage. Reasons: propaganda, and to show a pictures of a clean war. How little man have changed. They said that they are in a process to re-assess the historic value of huge quantities of film and picture material from that time.

Now imagine what Philip K. Dick would have made of it. That it even did not happen!?

How do you stage ripped apart corpses? But you are certainly right and I read similiar articles before. Nevertheless, even staged pics are part of the time and thus have a high value in getting a feel for the period and the thinking prevelent during that.

What bothers me much more then discussions about staged pics is that the concept of war itself and its glorification still goes on in most parts of the world, uneffected by the simple banalities of suffering, crippling and death. Jihads, crusades, "just" wars....it's a humilation of men's dignity.

Skybird · 11-11-08, 06:55 AM

Picture propaganda always was part of war. But the alleged ammounts of it (85-90% of the picture material staged) suprised me. Also that sometimes it even took place several years after the events, or the war.

On the visual glorification of war, I recommend to compare actual recrutiing videos and military advertising spots with the movie "Starship Troopers". It is so revealing, an that is why I love the movie. It eqally rips of the masks. But it seems that major parts of the audience did not like the message.

The movie was especially unsuccessful in that country that it aimed at for the most. Even the teacher from "All quiet on the Western front" is there!

11-11-08, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Picture propaganda always was part of war. But the alleged ammounts of it (85-90% of the picture material staged) suprised me. Also that sometimes it even took place several years after the events, or the war.

On the visual glorification of war, I recommend to compare actual recrutiing videos and military advertising spots with the movie "Starship Troopers". It is so revealing, an that is why I love the movie. It eqally rips of the masks. But it seems that major parts of the audience did not like the message.

The movie was especially unsuccessful in that country that it aimed at for the most. Even the teacher from "All quiet on the Western front" is there!

85 - 90 %, if true, which I am not "that" sure about, indeed is staggering. But given the rather primitive methods of fotography back then again not that curious, I suppose.

And indeed, the real life allegories to that movie are pretty much spot on if you know what to look out for. I pretty much love that movie myself for so many reasons, some of them pointed out by you already. It's creepy to think about how much truth that movie portrayed if you look at some political developments in certain regions of the world and the ideology driving it. A prime example is the degration the word "patriotism" had to endure. Unluckily, I fear, the movie was just not "obvious" enough for many folks to really grasp it's underlying messages, which led to all the criticism.

But we disgress. This thread is to remember those young folks that never got the chance to make an impact on the world but to become a nameless corpse on a fotography....if at all.

Author unknown

Why are they selling poppies, Mummy?
Selling poppies in town today.
The poppies, child, are flowers of love.
For the men who marched away,
But why have they chosen a poppy, Mummy?
Why not a beautiful rose?
Because, my child, men fought and died,
In the fields where the poppies grow.
But why are the poppies so red, Mummy?
Why are the poppies so red?
Red is the colour of blood, my child.
The blood that our soldiers shed.
The heart of the poppy is black, Mummy.
Why does it have to be black?
Black, my child, is the symbol of grief.
For the men who never came back.
But why. Mummy, are you crying so?
Your tears are giving you pain.
My tears are my fears for you, my child,
For the world is forgetting again.

limkol · 11-11-08, 09:20 AM

My respect to you for remembering the people who experienced those terrible times. People like you and me. It could have been you and I pointing bayonettes at each other. It could have been us that lost brothers, fathers, friends. It could have been us that came back suffering from the horrors of shell shock or mutilated or lame or dead.
The war to end all wars they said. They gave themselves, in the hope that it would be the war to end all wars.
My Grandfather was there with the Royal Irish Fusileers, Machine Gun Corps. He came back. Many were not so lucky.

Biggles · 11-11-08, 09:52 AM

Least we forget...

11-11-08, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limkol

My respect to you for remembering the people who experienced those terrible times. People like you and me. It could have been you and I pointing bayonettes at each other. It could have been us that lost brothers, fathers, friends. It could have been us that came back suffering from the horrors of shell shock or mutilated or lame or dead.
The war to end all wars they said. They gave themselves, in the hope that it would be the war to end all wars.
My Grandfather was there with the Royal Irish Fusileers, Machine Gun Corps. He came back. Many were not so lucky.

I so agree to you. And that makes it even more mind boggling. World war I was pointless beyond words. But given what happend back then, especially christmas 1914, just shows that these soldiers were young ppl like you and me. But it were the politicians driving them to war, making sure such activitites on christmas would not happen again.

So in the spirit of the weeks to come, take this to heart:

SteamWake · 11-11-08, 09:56 AM

I thank God for their service and sacrifice and I thank them as well.

<Salute>

Leave it to Skybird to make a debate out of a tribute thread.

Skybird · 11-11-08, 10:18 AM

Look in the Zeit or the SZ, I think it was the SZ today, were they had a series of coloured photographs. They wrote, if I remember it correctly, that of the 18 official army photographers of the germans, only one was shootin g in colour.

Edit: not the SZ, but here: http://einestages.spiegel.de/static/...engraeben.html

Thomen · 11-11-08, 10:34 AM

In the spirit of this thread...

R.I.P
George Lawrence Price and all other soldiers who fought and died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lawrence_Price

Hitman · 11-11-08, 02:47 PM

Respect to those fallen in a war that also meant the change of the world to start shape the "modern one" we know today, by causing the end of most central european monarchies.

What amazes me even more is that Hitler, Göring and all that rubbish were veterans of WW1, and despite what they had seen and suffered themselves, they were eager to throw the world into another war as soon as possible. Really, really insane....

Schroeder · 11-11-08, 03:55 PM

My respect to all those who had to go through this hell regardless of nationality. This war was pointless beyond believe. Just remember how many million lives were wasted and for what!

Let's think of that when we go to war again (which will surely happen because mankind is just too stupid to learn!).

11-11-08, 04:51 AM	#1
Bewolf Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Today, 90 years ago Today, 90 years ago, the great war came to an end. Let's not forget the victims of the first mechanized war in world history, a war born purely out of nationalistic paranoia, war hysteria and power mongering on all sides, governments and populations alike. I give a Salute to all the ppl fighting and dying in vain, no matter where they came from, Canada, France, USA, Austrialia, Turky, Germany, Russia, Austria, Hungary, Japan, Belgium, Italy, the list goes on. A whole generation wasted and the basis laid down for even more suffering 20 years later. This war was everything but "great". pics taken from spiegel.de Last edited by Bewolf; 11-11-08 at 10:54 AM.

11-11-08, 05:18 AM	#2
Respenus Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,169 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I salute all those who have, do and will server their nation! It was a bloody war, much more than we give it credit. A war far more revolutionary than the second world war and who's socio, economic and political impart was greater than it is today recognised. I am ashamed to be a Slovenian today. Men fought for their land and for their nation at the Isonzo front. It does not matter we were on the opposite side that the Entente. It does not matter. The men in trenches fought for their lives and their land, not for a great ideal of freedom. Yet, we as a nation do not commemorate this occasion. They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them. __________________

11-11-08, 05:48 AM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	A germannews article yesterday said that historians found 85-90% of all photos from battle and war in WWIwere bstaged fakes and showed no real battles, even if the scenes depicted were epic, but were taken during manouvers, or were put on stage. Reasons: propaganda, and to show a pictures of a clean war. How little man have changed. They said that they are in a process to re-assess the historic value of huge quantities of film and picture material from that time. Now imagine what Philip K. Dick would have made of it. That it even did not happen!? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 11-11-08 at 05:49 AM.

11-11-08, 05:58 AM	#4
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	''Lost but never, forgotten'' HunterICX __________________ Last edited by HunterICX; 11-11-08 at 06:02 AM.

11-11-08, 06:55 AM	#6
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Picture propaganda always was part of war. But the alleged ammounts of it (85-90% of the picture material staged) suprised me. Also that sometimes it even took place several years after the events, or the war. On the visual glorification of war, I recommend to compare actual recrutiing videos and military advertising spots with the movie "Starship Troopers". It is so revealing, an that is why I love the movie. It eqally rips of the masks. But it seems that major parts of the audience did not like the message. The movie was especially unsuccessful in that country that it aimed at for the most. Even the teacher from "All quiet on the Western front" is there! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 11-11-08 at 06:57 AM.

11-11-08, 09:20 AM	#8
limkol XO Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: looking in the bilge for a bottle opener Posts: 416 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	My respect to you for remembering the people who experienced those terrible times. People like you and me. It could have been you and I pointing bayonettes at each other. It could have been us that lost brothers, fathers, friends. It could have been us that came back suffering from the horrors of shell shock or mutilated or lame or dead. The war to end all wars they said. They gave themselves, in the hope that it would be the war to end all wars. My Grandfather was there with the Royal Irish Fusileers, Machine Gun Corps. He came back. Many were not so lucky.

11-11-08, 09:52 AM	#9
Biggles Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sweden (I'm not a Viking...) Posts: 3,529 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Least we forget... __________________

11-11-08, 09:56 AM	#11
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I thank God for their service and sacrifice and I thank them as well. <Salute> Leave it to Skybird to make a debate out of a tribute thread.

11-11-08, 10:18 AM	#12
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Look in the Zeit or the SZ, I think it was the SZ today, were they had a series of coloured photographs. They wrote, if I remember it correctly, that of the 18 official army photographers of the germans, only one was shootin g in colour. Edit: not the SZ, but here: http://einestages.spiegel.de/static/...engraeben.html __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 11-11-08 at 11:06 AM.

11-11-08, 10:34 AM	#13
Thomen Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 1,207 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	In the spirit of this thread... R.I.P George Lawrence Price and all other soldiers who fought and died. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lawrence_Price

11-11-08, 02:47 PM	#14
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	Respect to those fallen in a war that also meant the change of the world to start shape the "modern one" we know today, by causing the end of most central european monarchies. What amazes me even more is that Hitler, Göring and all that rubbish were veterans of WW1, and despite what they had seen and suffered themselves, they were eager to throw the world into another war as soon as possible. Really, really insane.... __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

11-11-08, 03:55 PM	#15
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	My respect to all those who had to go through this hell regardless of nationality. This war was pointless beyond believe. Just remember how many million lives were wasted and for what! Let's think of that when we go to war again (which will surely happen because mankind is just too stupid to learn!). __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.