How "Dynamic" Is It?

jazzabilly · 03-02-09, 07:59 AM

I was wondering - when a ship is sunk, it's supposed to stay sunk, right?

I am currently running a career in Jan. '43, based at Brisbane. Back in October of '42, just before the Battle Of Santa Cruz, I intercepted a BIG TF and sank a Taiho Class CV. I was driving USS Sailfish at the time.

Now, in Jan. I am in USS Haddock and stalking another honkin' big party of Gentlemen from the competing firm and there are TWO big green carriers, as well as two Shokaku Class CV's. Does the game occasionally forget that you sank a ship when you get a new sub? Or are the Japanese employing film special effects crews that cunningly simulate a sinking, exploding CV with harmless pyrotechnics?

Dread Knot · 03-02-09, 08:37 AM

As far as I know the game doesn't take individual ships off the IJN roster when you sink them. You can sink all the ships in a Japanese class like the Kongos or the Shokakus. Doesn't matter. There will be more clones of the same waiting in the wings to be regenerated even on the same patrol.

tater · 03-02-09, 08:39 AM

No, it doesn't. So it's not really dynamic at all (campaign dynamism implies a host of things SH4 lacks, IMO).

tater

jazzabilly · 03-02-09, 09:26 AM

Oh, so the roster is set then, for each time period? I guess it's easier to clone them ad lib.

Somewhat lame though, don't you think? It would be annoying to see Hiryu's in '44, for example.

tater · 03-02-09, 09:35 AM

Two things.

One, any Hiryu seen after June '42 can be assumed to be the very similar Unryu class. Really, this applies to most ship types except Yamato. There are usually similar ships, and regardless, SH4 is missing IJN ships, so some would always be functioning as "stand-ins" for other ships.

Two, the stock campaign is awful, don't play it.

jazzabilly · 03-02-09, 09:57 AM

Ah, ok. I hadn't considered the "stand in" idea. Maybe they're more like "stunt doubles".

I don't play stock, only RSRDC. Does that make any difference?

Sailor Steve · 03-02-09, 12:01 PM

Agree with Tater: The only thing 'Dynamic' about either SH3 or SH4 is your career. This has been true of sub sims since Day 1. Aces and Silent Hunter 1 were the same. In Houston Elanaiba discussed the possibility of making it more so in the future, with exhausted ship classes being replaced by another class, and possibly having the enemy beef up harbors after you've raided one.

But SH4? No.

Rockin Robbins · 03-02-09, 12:11 PM

All that stuff eats system resources like a little kid snarfs cotton candy. But we're getting to the stage where it could happen without crippling the game. Another 12 months would be very helpful in making dynamism more dynamic, but with Ubi wanting another infusion of cash and their business model for simulations not permitting any other method but total game replacement, that's what we're going to get whether we want it, need it or not: a premature game release.

So long as they stick to an inappropriate business model, we're not going to get what we need.

tater · 03-02-09, 01:06 PM

Some would not eat up resources that much, and are a sort of bare-minimum.

Have named ships in the Roster. When sunk, they are GONE. When all of a class are gone, then if the specific ship type is called in the campaign it does not appear, and if the class is called randomly, it is not picked. They can add a special named ship entry athat allows infinite spawns. Ie: Name=ship_name_1, Name=ship_name_2, Name=ship_name_4,then Name=-1

If Name=-1, then no limit on spawns. It will use the names up first, then just clasname#1, #2, etc after that.

Reaction to player. Read PRs. Sometimes skippers would not attack ships inbound to a patrol area so they would not alert the enemy. A simple code that would shift a group path around a known sub would be fine. Ie: you attack a ship. An exclusion zone of radius R is set around the point of the attack for Y hours (in a cfg file so we can mod it). Any group set to move through that zone is zigged around it. The exclusion zone would be on the order of 40nm I'd think. Outside of render range, so even if zigged through land it would not matter (ships only collide if a player is within render range).

03-02-09, 09:26 AM	#4
jazzabilly Planesman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 186 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Oh, so the roster is set then, for each time period? I guess it's easier to clone them ad lib. Somewhat lame though, don't you think? It would be annoying to see Hiryu's in '44, for example. __________________ If it's a fair fight, then you didn't plan it properly. ====================================

03-02-09, 09:57 AM	#6
jazzabilly Planesman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 186 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Ah, ok. I hadn't considered the "stand in" idea. Maybe they're more like "stunt doubles". I don't play stock, only RSRDC. Does that make any difference? __________________ If it's a fair fight, then you didn't plan it properly. ====================================

03-02-09, 12:01 PM	#7
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Agree with Tater: The only thing 'Dynamic' about either SH3 or SH4 is your career. This has been true of sub sims since Day 1. Aces and Silent Hunter 1 were the same. In Houston Elanaiba discussed the possibility of making it more so in the future, with exhausted ship classes being replaced by another class, and possibly having the enemy beef up harbors after you've raided one. But SH4? No. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-02-09, 12:11 PM	#8
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	All that stuff eats system resources like a little kid snarfs cotton candy. But we're getting to the stage where it could happen without crippling the game. Another 12 months would be very helpful in making dynamism more dynamic, but with Ubi wanting another infusion of cash and their business model for simulations not permitting any other method but total game replacement, that's what we're going to get whether we want it, need it or not: a premature game release. So long as they stick to an inappropriate business model, we're not going to get what we need. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

03-02-09, 07:59 AM	#1
jazzabilly Planesman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 186 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	How "Dynamic" Is It? I was wondering - when a ship is sunk, it's supposed to stay sunk, right? I am currently running a career in Jan. '43, based at Brisbane. Back in October of '42, just before the Battle Of Santa Cruz, I intercepted a BIG TF and sank a Taiho Class CV. I was driving USS Sailfish at the time. Now, in Jan. I am in USS Haddock and stalking another honkin' big party of Gentlemen from the competing firm and there are TWO big green carriers, as well as two Shokaku Class CV's. Does the game occasionally forget that you sank a ship when you get a new sub? Or are the Japanese employing film special effects crews that cunningly simulate a sinking, exploding CV with harmless pyrotechnics? __________________ If it's a fair fight, then you didn't plan it properly. ====================================

03-02-09, 08:37 AM	#2
Dread Knot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,288 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	As far as I know the game doesn't take individual ships off the IJN roster when you sink them. You can sink all the ships in a Japanese class like the Kongos or the Shokakus. Doesn't matter. There will be more clones of the same waiting in the wings to be regenerated even on the same patrol.

03-02-09, 08:39 AM	#3
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	No, it doesn't. So it's not really dynamic at all (campaign dynamism implies a host of things SH4 lacks, IMO). tater

03-02-09, 09:35 AM	#5
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Two things. One, any Hiryu seen after June '42 can be assumed to be the very similar Unryu class. Really, this applies to most ship types except Yamato. There are usually similar ships, and regardless, SH4 is missing IJN ships, so some would always be functioning as "stand-ins" for other ships. Two, the stock campaign is awful, don't play it.

03-02-09, 01:06 PM	#9
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Some would not eat up resources that much, and are a sort of bare-minimum. Have named ships in the Roster. When sunk, they are GONE. When all of a class are gone, then if the specific ship type is called in the campaign it does not appear, and if the class is called randomly, it is not picked. They can add a special named ship entry athat allows infinite spawns. Ie: Name=ship_name_1, Name=ship_name_2, Name=ship_name_4,then Name=-1 If Name=-1, then no limit on spawns. It will use the names up first, then just clasname#1, #2, etc after that. Reaction to player. Read PRs. Sometimes skippers would not attack ships inbound to a patrol area so they would not alert the enemy. A simple code that would shift a group path around a known sub would be fine. Ie: you attack a ship. An exclusion zone of radius R is set around the point of the attack for Y hours (in a cfg file so we can mod it). Any group set to move through that zone is zigged around it. The exclusion zone would be on the order of 40nm I'd think. Outside of render range, so even if zigged through land it would not matter (ships only collide if a player is within render range).