"German troops tank up for Afghan mission"

Mikhayl · 11-14-08, 02:08 PM

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11-14-08, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...ol-afghanistan

Quote:

The revelation has shocked a country that has never had much time for the Afghan mission. Newspaper reports under headlines such as "Drink for the Fatherland" and "Bundeswehr Boozers" have suggested that alcohol is the only way of keeping soldiers onside at a time when it is becoming ever harder to recruit them.

The figures suggest that the 3,600 German soldiers based in Afghanistan as part of Nato reconstruction mission, are each consuming around 278 litres (612 pints) of beer a year, as well as 128 standard measures of wine. The figures are set to rise by around 10% this year as troop numbers also increase.

:rotfl:

Not really that wonderous. Given our troops there must die from boredom and frustration, I'd probably start drinking myself. They have a half assed mission, they are not allowed to do their job the way they want (yes, the troops themselves actually do want to get more involved there instead of just playing target) and they just got word this will go on for another year. Either pull them back or do it right. This wannebe "lets show presence but oh noez, no risk" is pure poison to morales.

A disgrace by all means.

AntEater · 11-14-08, 02:41 PM

0,77 liters is definitely above the "2 cans of beer a day per man" rule I know, at least if you assume the normal 0,33 liter can.
Of course if they apply the rule to 0,5 liter cans, it is not

On the other hand, booze is not (yet) as frowned upon in Germany as in the US and most people can handle two cans of beer a day without becoming alcoholic or something.

Regarding the over-paranoid ROE and such, this is a disgrace.
Strangely this is not done by leftists of any kind but by a conservative defense minister. AFAIK under Struck, the ROE was laxer, but in 2005 Afghanistan was not as militant as today.
But Franz-Josef Jung is certainly a political lightweight whose main task seems to be keeping the armed forces out of the spotlight at all cost.
A good candidate for worst defense minister ever, and given such competition as Rudolf Scharping, this is not a mean feat.
It is a disgrace to leave the fighting to Dutch, Danes and even Estonians, but the Soldiers are not to blame for this.

I'm not sure about Afghanistan, but if we're in it, we should be totally in it, or get out.

AVGWarhawk · 11-14-08, 02:46 PM

I can't say as I blame them. Probably bored to tears.

11-14-08, 03:09 PM

Imagine being really hung-over in Afghanistan and having to pull mid-day guard duty under the scorching sun or something.

August · 11-14-08, 05:22 PM

I read the title to this thread and thought: "The Germans are actually going to use tanks in Afghanistan?"

Skybird · 11-14-08, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntEater

But Franz-Josef Jung is certainly a political lightweight whose main task seems to be keeping the armed forces out of the spotlight at all cost.

Pah. That man is an incompetent dilletant without the courage to call the things by their real name. I know from personal feedback that the german military hates him. Scharping's charme was that he did not stay long enough to do comparable ammounts of damage.

On the topic of alcohol, I do not read too much into it. there were far more serious failures, most serious the posing of German soldiers with arranged Afghan skeletons, skulls and bones.

AntEater · 11-14-08, 05:51 PM

Re the "Skulls and Bones" affair, so what?
I mean other people blow up weddings with JDAMs.
I've always wondered about the oh so patriotic Bild covering such Bundeswehr stories.
A real patriotic newspaper would've swept it under the rug as Bild does with most stories anyway.
C'mon, these guys are Fallschirmjäger, they're supposed to be attracted to death

From what I've gathered, the situation improved somewhat, with more agressive patrolling done by the above mentioned Fallis, which led to the suicide bombings.
Apparently the times when all german soldiers were stuck in their barracks drinking are over.
At least nowadays the Bundeswehr is able to send complete units to Afghanistan, not some 1945 style Heldenklau brigade as in the beginning.
I remember when half of the PRTs consisted of Artillerymen, despite the fact that Germany didn't have anything larger than a 20mm cannon in the whole country.
Now the QRF has the usual organic mortar battery, but they still can't do immidiate counterbattery fire against rocket attacks due to ROE.

Regarding our defense ministers, it seems:
Rühe was feared (Volker Rüpel)
Scharping was ridiculed
Struck was respected
But Jung is just hated
Funny is that among the four, Jung is the only commissioned officer.
Rühe and Scharping served as conscripts, Struck (IMHO the best of the bunch) didn't serve at all.

Skybird · 11-14-08, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntEater

Funny is that among the four, Jung is the only commissioned officer.

Oh, is he? I did not know that, i thought he was a complete alien to the army. If he has been an officer indeed, then I would rate his performance as defense minister even worse.

11-14-08, 02:08 PM	#1
Mikhayl Captain Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 485 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	--- --- Last edited by Mikhayl; 02-10-10 at 10:55 AM.

11-14-08, 02:41 PM	#3
AntEater Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 936 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	0,77 liters is definitely above the "2 cans of beer a day per man" rule I know, at least if you assume the normal 0,33 liter can. Of course if they apply the rule to 0,5 liter cans, it is not On the other hand, booze is not (yet) as frowned upon in Germany as in the US and most people can handle two cans of beer a day without becoming alcoholic or something. Regarding the over-paranoid ROE and such, this is a disgrace. Strangely this is not done by leftists of any kind but by a conservative defense minister. AFAIK under Struck, the ROE was laxer, but in 2005 Afghanistan was not as militant as today. But Franz-Josef Jung is certainly a political lightweight whose main task seems to be keeping the armed forces out of the spotlight at all cost. A good candidate for worst defense minister ever, and given such competition as Rudolf Scharping, this is not a mean feat. It is a disgrace to leave the fighting to Dutch, Danes and even Estonians, but the Soldiers are not to blame for this. I'm not sure about Afghanistan, but if we're in it, we should be totally in it, or get out. __________________ Last edited by AntEater; 11-14-08 at 02:41 PM.

11-14-08, 02:46 PM	#4
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I can't say as I blame them. Probably bored to tears. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

11-14-08, 05:22 PM	#6
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I read the title to this thread and thought: "The Germans are actually going to use tanks in Afghanistan?" __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

11-14-08, 05:51 PM	#8
AntEater Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 936 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Re the "Skulls and Bones" affair, so what? I mean other people blow up weddings with JDAMs. I've always wondered about the oh so patriotic Bild covering such Bundeswehr stories. A real patriotic newspaper would've swept it under the rug as Bild does with most stories anyway. C'mon, these guys are Fallschirmjäger, they're supposed to be attracted to death From what I've gathered, the situation improved somewhat, with more agressive patrolling done by the above mentioned Fallis, which led to the suicide bombings. Apparently the times when all german soldiers were stuck in their barracks drinking are over. At least nowadays the Bundeswehr is able to send complete units to Afghanistan, not some 1945 style Heldenklau brigade as in the beginning. I remember when half of the PRTs consisted of Artillerymen, despite the fact that Germany didn't have anything larger than a 20mm cannon in the whole country. Now the QRF has the usual organic mortar battery, but they still can't do immidiate counterbattery fire against rocket attacks due to ROE. Regarding our defense ministers, it seems: Rühe was feared (Volker Rüpel) Scharping was ridiculed Struck was respected But Jung is just hated Funny is that among the four, Jung is the only commissioned officer. Rühe and Scharping served as conscripts, Struck (IMHO the best of the bunch) didn't serve at all. __________________

11-14-08, 03:09 PM	#5
OneToughHerring Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Imagine being really hung-over in Afghanistan and having to pull mid-day guard duty under the scorching sun or something.