Damage model

patio87 · 09-04-08, 10:39 PM

How dynamic is the damage model in this game. For example, if I hit the rudder/prop with my cannon, or a torpedo, it seems like it's a roll of the dice if I take it out or not, there is no visual damage model to it. But when I put cannon rounds into the ships deck/side, I get visible holes for every shot.

Another thing is why is it that I rarely see holes in the sides of ships when I hit them with a torpedo? For example just 5 minutes ago I sunk a merchant ship, I hit him with 3 torpedo's, but when I went to external and went to inspect there was no damage holes in its side, and yet the ship went down within a minute. So what's going on here, why is that ship going down if it's not even damaged, or taking on water? It makes no sense.

And when I do put a hole in a ship, does that mean for sure that it's going to fill with water an go down, because it seems that's not the case sometimes, eventhough there is a massive 5 foot hole in its side.

BTW, I am playing vanilla SIlent hunter 4, no uboat missions loaded.

I have heard in another thread that this game was released unfinished, this seems to be one of the unfinished aspects of the game, and probably one of the most important things, I mean how can they spend time making fantastic over the top explosions, but not even make a decent damage model, makes no sense.

Falkirion · 09-04-08, 11:10 PM

Are you patched up to 1.4?

As for playing the stock, I'd recommend getting NSM and ROW/PE3 installed as it makes the default game much prettier and gives it a more realistic feel to it. I also noticed the issues you mentioned before I patched the game up. I smacked a merchant with a pair of torps and no visible hull damage but he did fall silent and sink eventually.

peabody · 09-05-08, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patio87

And when I do put a hole in a ship, does that mean for sure that it's going to fill with water an go down, because it seems that's not the case sometimes, eventhough there is a massive 5 foot hole in its side.

The ships have bulkheads between compartments and some compartments are smaller than others, so just having a 5 foot hole doesn't mean it will take on enough water to sink. Each ship is different. I have sunk a destroyer with one torpedo by hitting the 'magazine' and I have hit one with 4 torpedos and watched it sail away.

Peabody

Orion2012 · 09-05-08, 02:20 AM

A lot of it depends on what "zones" you hit. A shot behind the stack will generally disable most small merchants in a single shot. Multiple hits in the same place will not increase the sinking time, as rapidly as a hit in a previously undamaged zone.

I generally aim for one torpedo in the bow section, or under a large gun emplacment for warship, as peabody stated, hitting the "magazine" will cause catastrophic damage, one slightly behind, or directly into the smoke stack, getting close there will normally suffice, and if its over 6000 tons, one final torpedo as far back towards the stern as I dare before I risk missing, in hopes of either blowing the prop off, or just simple making her flood more rapidly.

SteamWake · 09-05-08, 10:37 AM

You will soon learn that the 'holes' are more or less a cosmetic representation at best.

Ive gotten my sub back home with 'holes' in it big enough to drive a truck through.

Likewise Ive put large holes in merchants just to have them continue steaming on at 7 or 8 knots...

Ive seen ships split in two float around for an hour or two.

Ive seen ships erupt into a giant fireball and slip beneath the surface in a matter of minutes.

So yea there is a lot of variables. Espically in the 'stock' game.

Sailor Steve · 09-05-08, 11:55 AM

Most of it has been said, but I'll reiterate:

Quote:

Originally Posted by patio87

How dynamic is the damage model in this game. For example, if I hit the rudder/prop with my cannon, or a torpedo, it seems like it's a roll of the dice if I take it out or not, there is no visual damage model to it. But when I put cannon rounds into the ships deck/side, I get visible holes for every shot.

It really is a roll of the dice. You might take it out or you might not. There was a real-life case of a Japanese destroyer that developed steering problems after a battle. The sluggish steering continued for weeks until they were finally able to get into a drydock for repairs. Once the ship was out of the water they discovered a hole right through the rudder, 21" wide. Apparently an American torpedo had gone through without exploding.

Quote:

Another thing is why is it that I rarely see holes in the sides of ships when I hit them with a torpedo? For example just 5 minutes ago I sunk a merchant ship, I hit him with 3 torpedo's, but when I went to external and went to inspect there was no damage holes in its side, and yet the ship went down within a minute. So what's going on here, why is that ship going down if it's not even damaged, or taking on water? It makes no sense.

As was said, the visible damage is purely eye candy. The ship can show no damage and still sink, or it can show a massive hole and keep right on steaming along. The best fix for this is to not use external views.

Quote:

And when I do put a hole in a ship, does that mean for sure that it's going to fill with water an go down, because it seems that's not the case sometimes, eventhough there is a massive 5 foot hole in its side.

No. The game tries to reflect a little of real-life warfare, though how good a job it does is debatable. Records show ships loaded with iron ore or steel which took one hit and went down in 30 seconds or less. On the other hand there was one case of a plain old merchant requiring eight torpedoes over ten hours to sink.

Explosions are easy to make. A properly working damage model that will satisfy everyone is another problem altogether.

Arclight · 09-05-08, 02:12 PM

And so, yet again, I shamelessly promote NSM. Want believable behaviour from damaged ships? That's your ticket. Never had "missing holes" to date, doubt I will ever see any. (NSM+ROW/PE+RFB+RSRD)

Basically, with stock the ships have hitpoints. HP 0 = ship sunk. With NSM ships will sink because 1 or more compartments get flooded and the ship capsizes, or the bow or stern gets pulled under causing more compartments to flood. Hitpoints still play a factor (somewhere), but the mechanics are essentially different, so you should see more believable behaviour. It only changes the Japanese ships, but that shouldn't be a problem since you're on 1.4

A little birdie even told me RFB is working on a major overhaul of the damage models.

Quote:

Originally Posted by patio87

I have heard in another thread that this game was released unfinished, this seems to be one of the unfinished aspects of the game, and probably one of the most important things, I mean how can they spend time making fantastic over the top explosions, but not even make a decent damage model, makes no sense.

Sadly that plays a part as well. Some ships, like the Shokaku-type fleet carrier, seem to have incomplete damage models. This can cause stuff like really big ships sinking with 1 hit, or screws and rudders not being destructible (among others). IIRC this is some of the stuff the RFB team is currently working on.

Maybe Ubi ran out of time, more likely the team ran out of money, but that's really the same thing. I'm not exactly thrilled about it either, but after slapping on a load of mods, all my issues just seem to have melted away.

Nisgeis · 09-05-08, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

It really is a roll of the dice. You might take it out or you might not. There was a real-life case of a Japanese destroyer that developed steering problems after a battle. The sluggish steering continued for weeks until they were finally able to get into a drydock for repairs. Once the ship was out of the water they discovered a hole right through the rudder, 21" wide. Apparently an American torpedo had gone through without exploding.

The story of that is in 'Japanese Destroyer Captain' by Captain Tameichi Hara. It's a very interesting read of the pacific war through Japanese eyes.

SteamWake · 09-05-08, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The best fix for this is to not use external views.

Blasphemer !

Your not taking away my photo ops ! :rotfl:

I watched an IJN destroyer take a keel shot and keep on steaming at flank... yet she is going down at the bow. I continued to watch untill... whill still going flank, with men at her guns, she rolled turtle ! There she floated for at least 2 hous belly up. It was a sight to behold.

(RFB by the way)

09-04-08, 10:39 PM	#1
patio87 Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 9 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Damage model How dynamic is the damage model in this game. For example, if I hit the rudder/prop with my cannon, or a torpedo, it seems like it's a roll of the dice if I take it out or not, there is no visual damage model to it. But when I put cannon rounds into the ships deck/side, I get visible holes for every shot. Another thing is why is it that I rarely see holes in the sides of ships when I hit them with a torpedo? For example just 5 minutes ago I sunk a merchant ship, I hit him with 3 torpedo's, but when I went to external and went to inspect there was no damage holes in its side, and yet the ship went down within a minute. So what's going on here, why is that ship going down if it's not even damaged, or taking on water? It makes no sense. And when I do put a hole in a ship, does that mean for sure that it's going to fill with water an go down, because it seems that's not the case sometimes, eventhough there is a massive 5 foot hole in its side. BTW, I am playing vanilla SIlent hunter 4, no uboat missions loaded. I have heard in another thread that this game was released unfinished, this seems to be one of the unfinished aspects of the game, and probably one of the most important things, I mean how can they spend time making fantastic over the top explosions, but not even make a decent damage model, makes no sense.

09-04-08, 11:10 PM	#2
Falkirion Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Melbourne, AUS Posts: 1,043 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Are you patched up to 1.4? As for playing the stock, I'd recommend getting NSM and ROW/PE3 installed as it makes the default game much prettier and gives it a more realistic feel to it. I also noticed the issues you mentioned before I patched the game up. I smacked a merchant with a pair of torps and no visible hull damage but he did fall silent and sink eventually.

09-05-08, 02:20 AM	#4
Orion2012 Commodore Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 611 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	A lot of it depends on what "zones" you hit. A shot behind the stack will generally disable most small merchants in a single shot. Multiple hits in the same place will not increase the sinking time, as rapidly as a hit in a previously undamaged zone. I generally aim for one torpedo in the bow section, or under a large gun emplacment for warship, as peabody stated, hitting the "magazine" will cause catastrophic damage, one slightly behind, or directly into the smoke stack, getting close there will normally suffice, and if its over 6000 tons, one final torpedo as far back towards the stern as I dare before I risk missing, in hopes of either blowing the prop off, or just simple making her flood more rapidly.

09-05-08, 10:37 AM	#5
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	You will soon learn that the 'holes' are more or less a cosmetic representation at best. Ive gotten my sub back home with 'holes' in it big enough to drive a truck through. Likewise Ive put large holes in merchants just to have them continue steaming on at 7 or 8 knots... Ive seen ships split in two float around for an hour or two. Ive seen ships erupt into a giant fireball and slip beneath the surface in a matter of minutes. So yea there is a lot of variables. Espically in the 'stock' game.