Electric Torpedos and convoys in June 1944...

Systemlord · 08-20-08, 05:45 PM

I now have the option to use the electric torpedos and after having used them they still leave a visible trail of bubbles, I thought the whole purpose was to hide the visible trail of bubbles?:hmm: Also getting close enough to a convoy in June 1944 to let loose some torpedos is near impossible now that the destroyers perfectly overlap one another, any tips? I just don't see a way to get close anymore, even using 1 knot with silent running mode doesn't work anymore. I was able to sink a Kongo Battleship lastnight, 6 torps at 27ft running depth. Thank you for any help!

Peto · 08-20-08, 06:54 PM

Are you using any mods? That might clear up your stealth question.

I don't think the escorts can see the electric torpedos regardless if you can or not... Personally, I use electrics in the after room and steam up front and am always looking for a nice destroyer to meet the Mk18's. That way, if I miss or get a dud and he starts looking for me at least I'm pointed in the right direction

.

Frederf · 08-20-08, 07:08 PM

The destroyers cheat and will automatically turn on their active sonar if you are inside the contact parameters. It's an old coding flaw that won't be fixed. Use narrow aspect to minimize your active sonar potential and you'll get detected a whole lot less.

Do AI ships pick up on the sound of torpedo screws in the water? Do they visibly see shallow running torps even if they are electric?

SteamWake · 08-20-08, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peto

That way, if I miss or get a dud and he starts looking for me at least I'm pointed in the right direction

.

I approve of this message

:rotfl:

Peto · 08-20-08, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frederf

The destroyers cheat and will automatically turn on their active sonar if you are inside the contact parameters. It's an old coding flaw that won't be fixed. Use narrow aspect to minimize your active sonar potential and you'll get detected a whole lot less.

Yes. But you have some control of those parameters. Enemy sonar contact parameters are frequently based on your RPM's... I've had unalerted escorts go by me at a thousand yards or less without picking me up many times. Weather is a huge factor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frederf

Do AI ships pick up on the sound of torpedo screws in the water? Do they visibly see shallow running torps even if they are electric?

Maybe and I don't think so. I'm not confident enough to bet the farm on either answer though.

Peto · 08-20-08, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peto

That way, if I miss or get a dud and he starts looking for me at least I'm pointed in the right direction

.

I approve of this message

:rotfl:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Systemlord · 08-20-08, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frederf

The destroyers cheat and will automatically turn on their active sonar if you are inside the contact parameters. It's an old coding flaw that won't be fixed. Use narrow aspect to minimize your active sonar potential and you'll get detected a whole lot less.

I think that half circle shaped net is inside the contact parameters, What do you mean by, use narrow aspect to minimize my active sonar? I'll try loading the electric torps in AFT section only, with steam torps up front.

Orion2012 · 08-20-08, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Systemlord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frederf

The destroyers cheat and will automatically turn on their active sonar if you are inside the contact parameters. It's an old coding flaw that won't be fixed. Use narrow aspect to minimize your active sonar potential and you'll get detected a whole lot less.

I think that half circle shaped net is inside the contact parameters, What do you mean by, use narrow aspect to minimize my active sonar? I'll try loading the electric torps in AFT section only, with steam torps up front.

Turn the boat so your bow or stern is facing towards the DD's bow or stern.
The narrower you make the submarine the harder it is for him to detect the return from his sonar.

If you look in this thread, the third diagram, it perfectly demonstartes the whole "aspect" thing.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377

As one of the others posted, I too have been well within the contact parameters of the DD's. It seems to be determined on how stealth you were getting into that area, and how quiet you can remain, at least IMO, although I have heard them turn that active sonar on when I'm well below 75 RPM's

Mush Martin · 08-20-08, 08:58 PM

Do what I do

either sink em all from outside five thousand yds,
or show your tower above surface to draw the destroyers
onto steady CBDR track and albeit converging on you its steady
and stable situation for long enough so Sink em all, dine on the
convoy at leisure.

more realistically try this,

send off one long range shot into the whole overlapping formation
set it shallow enough to hit anything and launch at extreme long
range fire on the formation at a point about twenty five percent
of its length back from the nose.
as its closing the formation on slow speed move further down
along the the targets track away from the convoy in the same
direction they are close the track if necessary as the torp starts
to close the formation turn your sub into final firing orientation
and hit all stop dont hit silent running your still loading just all stop

in all likely hood your still seven thousand or six thousand yards
out the convoy will gather but the destroyers will break up a
bit and stay fixated for a bit and regathering will have the
convoy on you before they are re screened most versions
the destroyers wont search outside a four thousand yard
circle unless theyve seen you torpedo trails or not, seriously.

M

Ariodant · 08-20-08, 11:37 PM

Many times DDs ping me but eventually lose me. At first I was playing the quiet and waiting game, not at all. I simply froze. "OMG, he's pinging me, I'll get DCed, What to do? What to do?" (Ended up doing nothing)

And the DDs sailed away to catch up with the convoy.

My friends were all more seasoned and proactive. "You can't just wait for death, let me show you what you should do. Dive! Turn hard! Ahead flank!"

And he got sunken...

Peto · 08-21-08, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariodant

Many times DDs ping me but eventually lose me. At first I was playing the quiet and waiting game, not at all. I simply froze. "OMG, he's pinging me, I'll get DCed, What to do? What to do?" (Ended up doing nothing)

And the DDs sailed away to catch up with the convoy.

My friends were all more seasoned and proactive. "You can't just wait for death, let me show you what you should do. Dive! Turn hard! Ahead flank!"

And he got sunken...

:rotfl:

You did the right thing. Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing. I've had situations where I know an escort has me on active but I remain at silent running and wait for his move. Then he creeps in instead of making a run--seems like he's trying to locate me passively. When (if) he drops dc's they can be well off the mark because he was poking around so slow. And then he goes back to the convoy or loses me. Key word in this paragraph? Sometimes

!

Patience is your friend Ariodant. Learn how to wait and you'll take more boats through to the end of the war.

EDIT: But I would have gone deep LOL.

Systemlord · 08-21-08, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Systemlord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frederf

The destroyers cheat and will automatically turn on their active sonar if you are inside the contact parameters. It's an old coding flaw that won't be fixed. Use narrow aspect to minimize your active sonar potential and you'll get detected a whole lot less.

I think that half circle shaped net is inside the contact parameters, What do you mean by, use narrow aspect to minimize my active sonar? I'll try loading the electric torps in AFT section only, with steam torps up front.

Turn the boat so your bow or stern is facing towards the DD's bow or stern.
The narrower you make the submarine the harder it is for him to detect the return from his sonar.

If you look in this thread, the third diagram, it perfectly demonstartes the whole "aspect" thing.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377

As one of the others posted, I too have been well within the contact parameters of the DD's. It seems to be determined on how stealth you were getting into that area, and how quiet you can remain, at least IMO, although I have heard them turn that active sonar on when I'm well below 75 RPM's

I get it, less surface area facing the DD gives them less return.

Peto · 08-21-08, 12:18 AM

Yes! You got it Systemlord. It's a very important part of remaining undetected or getting away.

Systemlord · 08-21-08, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peto

Yes! You got it Systemlord. It's a very important part of remaining undetected or getting away.

Wow! I must have played SH3 for 8 solid months and never knew anything about detection methods, no wonder why it seem so random that I would escape. Sometimes changing directions would either kill me or not. I do have another question though, I noticed that my new 5" deck gun only loads anti-aircraft and HE shells, but no AP shells. My two 40mm flak guns can load HE along with AP shells, is there something funny going on here? I do have that bug where I moved my deck gun (from BOW to AFT) and lost my aft and bow deck gun crewman slots, now my gun reload slowly. I could NOT load the game before the bug cause I deleted my old saves.

Zero Niner · 08-21-08, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peto

Yes! You got it Systemlord. It's a very important part of remaining undetected or getting away.

Kind of screwed if there're 2 or 3 escorts actively pinging away. It's not possible to avoid presenting the side of the sub to at least one of them.

How do you escape, apart from going as deep and as slow and silent as possible?

08-20-08, 05:45 PM	#1
Systemlord Gunner Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 99 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Electric Torpedos and convoys in June 1944... I now have the option to use the electric torpedos and after having used them they still leave a visible trail of bubbles, I thought the whole purpose was to hide the visible trail of bubbles?:hmm: Also getting close enough to a convoy in June 1944 to let loose some torpedos is near impossible now that the destroyers perfectly overlap one another, any tips? I just don't see a way to get close anymore, even using 1 knot with silent running mode doesn't work anymore. I was able to sink a Kongo Battleship lastnight, 6 torps at 27ft running depth. Thank you for any help!

08-20-08, 06:54 PM	#2
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Are you using any mods? That might clear up your stealth question. I don't think the escorts can see the electric torpedos regardless if you can or not... Personally, I use electrics in the after room and steam up front and am always looking for a nice destroyer to meet the Mk18's. That way, if I miss or get a dud and he starts looking for me at least I'm pointed in the right direction . __________________ If your target has a 30 degree AOB, the range from his base course line equals the current range divided by 2.

08-20-08, 08:58 PM	#9
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Do what I do either sink em all from outside five thousand yds, or show your tower above surface to draw the destroyers onto steady CBDR track and albeit converging on you its steady and stable situation for long enough so Sink em all, dine on the convoy at leisure. more realistically try this, send off one long range shot into the whole overlapping formation set it shallow enough to hit anything and launch at extreme long range fire on the formation at a point about twenty five percent of its length back from the nose. as its closing the formation on slow speed move further down along the the targets track away from the convoy in the same direction they are close the track if necessary as the torp starts to close the formation turn your sub into final firing orientation and hit all stop dont hit silent running your still loading just all stop in all likely hood your still seven thousand or six thousand yards out the convoy will gather but the destroyers will break up a bit and stay fixated for a bit and regathering will have the convoy on you before they are re screened most versions the destroyers wont search outside a four thousand yard circle unless theyve seen you torpedo trails or not, seriously. M __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

08-21-08, 12:18 AM	#13
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Yes! You got it Systemlord. It's a very important part of remaining undetected or getting away. __________________ If your target has a 30 degree AOB, the range from his base course line equals the current range divided by 2.

08-20-08, 07:08 PM	#3
Frederf Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 665 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 1	The destroyers cheat and will automatically turn on their active sonar if you are inside the contact parameters. It's an old coding flaw that won't be fixed. Use narrow aspect to minimize your active sonar potential and you'll get detected a whole lot less. Do AI ships pick up on the sound of torpedo screws in the water? Do they visibly see shallow running torps even if they are electric?

08-20-08, 11:37 PM	#10
Ariodant Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Many times DDs ping me but eventually lose me. At first I was playing the quiet and waiting game, not at all. I simply froze. "OMG, he's pinging me, I'll get DCed, What to do? What to do?" (Ended up doing nothing) And the DDs sailed away to catch up with the convoy. My friends were all more seasoned and proactive. "You can't just wait for death, let me show you what you should do. Dive! Turn hard! Ahead flank!" And he got sunken...