New submarine

[Trinidad]

Hi all,

Just to let you know, as maybe not all of you are aware of it. There is a new SSK under construction : the Spanish S-80.

It has more weapons, can be submerged for a longer (very long for a SSK) time and is supposed to be more silent than the other SSK submarines.

It's completelly Spanish (OLÉ ), but with some products from other countries (i.e. hidrogen cells from the US...the UK also is doing something...as subcontractors). And it has a high chance to be exported, as 500 countries have asked about it......

The first unit will be commissioned to the Spanish Navy on 2013 (it means it will be be the most advanced sub of the SSK's, and maybe more advanced than than the SSN's....but the virginias, I guess, as the components used in it will more modern, nothing else, not better, not worser, just modern, as it's a time factor)

Length : 71'05 m
Diameter: 11'68 m
Speed : 12 knt surfaced, 19 submerged
Endurance: 8000 km. (20-30 days submerged; 50-60 days surfaced)
Propulsion: diesel (3x1200 Kw), batteries(3500 Kw).....and a hidrogen reactor(300 Kw ->15 days submerged endurance)
displacement: 2404 submerged, 2177 surfaced
Crew: 32
Sensors: Bow, hull, towed array + tipical pack(periscope, ESM....)
Weapons: 6 tubes for torpedoes (Mk48, DM2/A4), missiles(Tomahawk, Sub-Harpoon bolck II)
Cost: 450M€ (+- $675M)








From my point of view, it would be great to have this ship modelled in a subsim.... please let me know your thoughts.

More Links (in Spanish only):
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clase_S-80
http://www.armada.mde.es/html/conoce...rtimentos.html

[SandyCaesar]

Hmm, sounds interesting. But I don't believe the "500 countries" thing...are you sure you didn't mean 5? There aren't 500 countries on Earth (selling SSK's to the Martians, are we?), and even 50 countries would be stretching things quite a bit considering the Spanish Navy submarine program's (relative) obscurity. Not even well-known sub programs (German 206/209/212 series, Russian Foxtrots/Kilos) have 50 customers.

Just so you know, a "hydrogen fuel cell" (which makes sense as an AIP engine) and a "hydrogen reactor" (which is right now purely theoretical) are hugely different things. I don't think you can fit any kind of reactor in the next 20 years or so in a 2400-ton hull.

And 2013...I dunno, that's a bit late by DW standards. Unless it's in commission right now, or supposed to be (coughUGSTcoughcough), it's not likely to make it in. Otherwise the modders would have to model the LCS, the DDG-1000s, the Borei class, the Severodinsk class...

[Trinidad]

Originally Posted by SandyCaesar

Hmm, sounds interesting. But I don't believe the "500 countries" thing...are you sure you didn't mean 5? There aren't 500 countries on Earth (selling SSK's to the Martians, are we?), and even 50 countries would be stretching things quite a bit considering the Spanish Navy submarine program's (relative) obscurity. Not even well-known sub programs (German 206/209/212 series, Russian Foxtrots/Kilos) have 50 customers.

Just so you know, a "hydrogen fuel cell" (which makes sense as an AIP engine) and a "hydrogen reactor" (which is right now purely theoretical) are hugely different things. I don't think you can fit any kind of reactor in the next 20 years or so in a 2400-ton hull.

And 2013...I dunno, that's a bit late by DW standards. Unless it's in commission right now, or supposed to be (coughUGSTcoughcough), it's not likely to make it in. Otherwise the modders would have to model the LCS, the DDG-1000s, the Borei class, the Severodinsk class...

Mmmmm you are right, it's an AIP "reactor" sorry I translated it literally from the Spanish site..and yes, it said 500 countries, and yes, I also think it's ridiculous, or an error, as I only know about Turkey (who decided for the German model), India and Australia...

This is the first complete Spanish design....but we designed in cooperation with DCN the Scorpene sub. We have built our own "toy" (seaqueen influence on me) carrier and our own AEGIS frigates...our naval industry is good one. Why our subs (after the Scorpene project) won't be as good as our surface ships???? (many reasons, I know but let's give it chance).

I'm thinking about a DW misson with an SSN against an AIP sub....it's an SSK...but doesn't need to snorkel (in a certain time...) it sure would be a long mission, and probably a hard one.

I agree with you...too late for DW

[Kapitan]

AEGIS is an american weapons system using radar and stuff jointly developed by japan america and UK (UK supplying parts and japan supplying computer equipment).

Also the spanish have only a small navy and i would personally see this as a first generation of home built submarine it looks alot like the french scorpene submarines being built now and if i remember correctly a licence was agreed between the spanish and DCNS so the spanish could build thier own scorpenes.

So id hesitate to say its all spanish as well.

On top of that the USA have limited fuel cell AIP knowlege or even use for this technology, you would be better off shopping for it in sweden or germany.

http://www.deagel.com/Conventional-A...000425003.aspx

This is a news article from deagel which highlights that the S-80 programme is really scorpenes purchased from france.

[Trinidad]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

AEGIS is an american weapons system using radar and stuff jointly developed by japan america and UK (UK supplying parts and japan supplying computer equipment).

Also the spanish have only a small navy and i would personally see this as a first generation of home built submarine it looks alot like the french scorpene submarines being built now and if i remember correctly a licence was agreed between the spanish and DCNS so the spanish could build thier own scorpenes.

So id hesitate to say its all spanish as well.

On top of that the USA have limited fuel cell AIP knowlege or even use for this technology, you would be better off shopping for it in sweden or germany.

http://www.deagel.com/Conventional-A...000425003.aspx

This is a news article from deagel which highlights that the S-80 programme is really scorpenes purchased from france.

The Scorpenes were a joint proyect between the French DCN and the Spanish Bazán (now Navantia), in a 60-40 basis.

The S80 is our first design yes, completely designed in Spain. Uk is for example providing the TA and building the dome (not sonar,just the dome) as it has been designed by us for the first 2. US is provideng the cells....but if they cut the selling of them, well, surely they are "made in China"......there is a MESMA in France also...and in any case, we could try to develop our own (major economic effort as we would have to build industry and the goverment should pay our technicians....)

As I recall....the German 212 looks pretty similar to the scorpene as well http://beguesmaker.blogspot.com/2008...-tipo-212.html
Scorpene here http://www.op.osw.pl/op/wspolczesne_...chemat_big.jpg

Maybe the 212 is also a Scorpene....

In any case, as you said, AEGIS is american, more than anything else...but as far as I know we are the only european navy (with Norway) who can use this system (allowed by US of course...copyright is copyright)

Anyhow, we are changing our navy: we build our own surface ships..and if the goverment spent more money in science research, we would be able to reduce the use of foreign technology.

I hope it´s the beggining of a nice increasement of self-designed technology...maybe in some years we are able to built totally a sub by our own (sensors, torps...) ¡¡this would mean many researchers at work!! and therefore more work for me....

[OneShot]

Well, I dont think the German 212 is a result of any outside help. As far as I know HDW did it on its own (besides HDW is a major exporter (or selling licenses) for conventional subs.

As far as AEGIS goes, the German navy has a radar/system called ARPA in the 124 frigates (SACHSEN class) which is equal to or (depending on who you ask) even more advanced than AEGIS.

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by OneShot

Well, I dont think the German 212 is a result of any outside help. As far as I know HDW did it on its own (besides HDW is a major exporter (or selling licenses) for conventional subs.

As far as AEGIS goes, the German navy has a radar/system called ARPA in the 124 frigates (SACHSEN class) which is equal to or (depending on who you ask) even more advanced than AEGIS.

The british were offered the aegis system but turned it down for thier new type 45's as we have something a little more better again depends who you talk to, but like everything well most things allies share bits and pieces like the tomahawk american missile with british guts or exocet french missile again with british guts.