British town council strikes again!

[Skybird]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7524526.stm

Even me would see no reason for complaining about this man.

These town councils so much talk is about in Britain - what are these exactly, and how do they get their power, where is the basis for this written down? I admit I have only a vague impression - but that impression is negative. I mean - i never heared something positive about them.

[Sailor Steve]

Skybird, no! You're going to set Steed off again!:rotfl:

Yeah, it's ridiculous. There ought to be a law against people who don't work for a living making laws.

[Skybird]

All I did was putting a quarter in the machine! :p

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Skybird

These town councils so much talk is about in Britain - what are these exactly, and how do they get their power, where is the basis for this written down? I admit I have only a vague impression - but that impression is negative. I mean - i never heared something positive about them.

I have been asking this same question on some other boards. How did these town councils garner such authority and is there no check/balance of their power?

Does every town have these councils or only specific ones? Are the council members elected by the citizens?

And despite all the bad press (whether it is justified or not) what do these town councils do that is good?

[AntEater]

I suppose it is the same as a "Gemeindevorstand would be in german.
The only difference is that while our communities are also responsible for low level law enforcement, they are doing this under supervision of the state ministry of interior.
So either the whole state goes insane or there's a balance to low level insanity...
On the other hand, it seems to me that the differentiation between "Straftat" and "Ordnungswidrigkeit" is the most rational thing ever to come out of german law.
For non germans, minor offenses are not considered criminal in germany.
You can get fined for dumping trash or whatever minor offense, but it does not go on criminal record, you can't get arrested because of it and these laws are enforced by unarmed civil servants rather than police.

[Skybird]

Barely ever heared "Gemeindevorstände" taking some action that made it into the news. Or my awareness, for that matter.

[AntEater]

Yes, because here, communities do not uphold the law all by themselves.
While communities are responsible here for petty offenses, they carry out this duty under oversight from the respective state ministry of interior.
This british thing is strange because communal self-administration was originally to PREVENT the state from messing with people's lives, not to facilitate it.
Problem with communal administration is that there is no seperation of powers, as communities have both legislative and executive functions.

[kurtz]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I have been asking this same question on some other boards. How did these town councils garner such authority and is there no check/balance of their power?

Does every town have these councils or only specific ones? Are the council members elected by the citizens?

And despite all the bad press (whether it is justified or not) what do these town councils do that is good?

The supposed aim was to devolve authority into local assemblies. What we have is National Government (regional government sort of in parrellel for Scots and Welsh) District councils then local councils.
yes they are elected, but when has that ever made anybody useful.
really the whole idea is to get extra taxes so in addition to income tax (a % of your salary). you have a local tax which they rename evry other year so you can't complain about it. It used to be called poll tax and was a flat charge for everybody, before that it was rates and was a tax on the size of your house now it's some kind of mixture of the two.

As for crime not paying your council tax is one of the few things which will get you a shared room in one of HM's prisons.

Hope this helps.

[Skybird]

It does. Thanks!

[XabbaRus]

The problem is that though councils are elected I feel they are not as accountable as the press watches the big MPs in westminster and Holyrood there is more scrutiny.

With councils it is less scrutinised and also the type of people who go for councils are the same type who have no ambitions beyond their own local power base, they have their friends who they can help and it is easier to screw around and not get caught.

Take a look at Aberdeen council. £50million in debt and the council leader refuses to accept responsibility and leave. Also the type of people who sterotypically are elected in councils and who run them are the same type who act like mini Hitlers when given power. These powers are being devolved further down the chain of responsibility/education and ability with a result you get some illeducated idiot who can't get a better job than being a warden for example but has the ability to dish out fines running to hundreds of pounds. They kind who will target a neigbour who has upset them...

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by kurtz

As for crime not paying your council tax is one of the few things which will get you a shared room in one of HM's prisons.

Hope this helps.

Yup, even if you're an old biddy in her 70's. Can't find bbc link

Despite 'Council Tax' being used to pay for local amenities like the police, fire brigade, refuse collection and so on, which on the face of it seems like a fair idea, you have to look at it in the long term - they can screw you for money and annually increase your payment (ours is currently the thick end of £1000.00 per year) more or less at will (ok, inflation).
In the 6 years at my current address there's been a steady rise in tax with no appreciable return, and with plans for councils to charge you for the refuse you generate, a sort of 'pay as you tip' amongst other ideas, I am more convinced this is all to do with council overspending. But hang on a minute, don't I already pay for my rubbish to be collected as part of my yearly council tax? Ah, but it's a green issue. Oh well I suppose you can fleece me for more cash then

I think the average Brit holds local authority with a good deal of contempt and scorn.
It wouldn't be so bad if when a miscalculation is made and you overpay your tax, that you get it paid back to you. No, it sits in the local authority coffers gaining interest whilst they magnanimously inform you that it will be deducted from your next years council tax bill.
The incompetence and intractability of my council is probably the norm accrues the country. That and the actions of certain authorities using anti terror laws to spy on parents to determine if they are illegible for the appropriate school catchment area, merely reinforces my low opinion of local government.

Sadly it's not just a money and excessive bureaucracy thing either; my city has suffered from endless roadworks in the inner city ring road. Not forgetting the fiasco with pedestrianising the areas of the city centre. Last year the contractors moved in and dug up the roads to lay down brick cobbles and paving slabs and marble from china (apparently). This year they are digging it all up again because firstly the job was bodged and all the new pedestrian areas are subsiding, and secondly the expensive marble was the wrong kind and so had to be sent back to china and more procured and polished at further expense.
The closing of local authority run community centres and lack of local support for various associations (for the elderly etc), the list goes on.

I will concede that certain of the inner city redevelopments are an improvement. For example, the canal that runs close to the town centre has been redeveloped, with property and shops/bars pedestrian areas. Sounds nice, you say. Well in part it is. However, if you go a couple of hundred metres down the way you'll find all sorts of junk and foulness around one of the largest weirs in the city. It could be really nice. Instead, filth clogs the canal and river without any sign of improvement. Which just goes to show it's all about appearances and nothing whatsoever to do with the benefit of the people who actually live here. More a façade for the gravitas of 'the city' and it's councillors. I've lived here over ten years and in all that time one of the city's historic landmarks has never been far from the appearance of an open sewer.

[XabbaRus]

Hear what you are saying jumpy. Google Aberdeen Council and debt and see what they have done. As a result the popular ice rink is closing so there goes a skating club and ice hockey team. So more kids on the street. The laugh was when the closure was announced there was a big protest and the excuse for closing it wasn't money but a "structural flaw" in the building. It's been up for over 10 years without and issue.

I do feel though that things are brewing for a change. Even though Brits take a lot I feel an undercurrent of discontent waiting to burst.

[kurtz]

Originally Posted by jumpy

Yup, even if you're an old biddy in her 70's. Can't find bbc link



It wouldn't be so bad if when a miscalculation is made and you overpay your tax, that you get it paid back to you. No, it sits in the local authority coffers gaining interest whilst they magnanimously inform you that it will be deducted from your next years council tax bill.

In Tring (well Dacorum who are the Borough council and one tier higher) they posted to evrybody that they had overcharged us by 16p (£0.16) however it costs 26p(i think) to send us a letter so what was the bloody point? perhaps instead they could have emptied the bin a more thoroughly rather than spread the contents in the streets, opened the public library a bit longer

Sadly it's not just a money and excessive bureaucracy thing either; my city has suffered from endless roadworks in the inner city ring road. Not forgetting the fiasco with pedestrianising the areas of the city centre. Last year the contractors moved in and dug up the roads to lay down brick cobbles and paving slabs and marble from china (apparently). This year they are digging it all up again because firstly the job was bodged and all the new pedestrian areas are subsiding, and secondly the expensive marble was the wrong kind and so had to be sent back to china and more procured and polished at further expense.
The closing of local authority run community centres and lack of local support for various associations (for the elderly etc), the list goes on.

Ditto tring, lovely brick paving, great! 6 months later it's collapsed around the grids and stuff and they've got new people in to do it. Thing is I had exactly the same thing with my drive (on a smaller scale obviously) and I got the builder back in and got him to fix at without me paying, so why do the council pay someone else to do it? had they got a load of bloody gypsies (sorry, lovely romany travelling folk) in to do it cheap and now they've baggered off? well? well? I ask you and we said we didn't want a Tesco store and the Borough council said well actually you do you just don't realise the benefits.. that's enough for now, it's friday night I'm off to get drunk