The real wartime recognition manual

[LukeFF]

Thought I'd start a little something here and show you guys what the ships we have in SH4 looked like to the submariners during the war. All of these pics were compiled in a 1944-dated manual:

(Note: an "A" rating meant the intelligence information on this particular ship was excellent, a "B" so-so, and "C" was very sketchy).

Kasasigan Maru (aka "Small Old Split Freighter"):



Taihosan Maru (aka "Small Modern Composite Freighter"):



Haruna Maru (aka "Small Old Tanker"):



Zinbu Maru (aka "Medium European Composite Freighter"):
(Note the date of construction on that thing! )

[Schroeder]

Nice.

[Sailor Steve]

Been there. Seen that. Bought the thing. Got the kimono.









:rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

Neat! And surprise!!!! Height measurements on stacks and cabin tops sometimes. It would be interesting to see how accurate those measurements are. For instance, on the Taihosan Maru (aka "Small Modern Composite Freighter") there are two height measurements, the top of the stack and the crosstree of the crane that show 40'. But they are clearly by inspection two different heights above the water! Either one or both of those 40' measurements is wrong.

It reinforces my view that stadimeter readings should remain very inaccurate in order for the game to be accurate. It also shows that it is way too easy to identify ships in SH4. I would estimate our conventional targeting accuracy is too good by a factor of two. If you implement a mast height rectification mod, such as that by a modder I admire greatly, you make SH4 into an arcade game with no connection to reality.

[Hitman]

Yeah, I agree partially with you I myself do not use normally the recognition manual, I just try to estimate the mast or funnel heigths and use the rangefinder tool manually by setting myself the base heigth to be used. I love that SH4 allows to do that and miss it a lot in SH3 and the UBM Add-On

Fact is, after some trial and error I have become quite proficient at it and my ranges & bearings use to match what the Position Keeper shows. Playing this way is much rewarding

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

It reinforces my view that stadimeter readings should remain very inaccurate in order for the game to be accurate. It also shows that it is way too easy to identify ships in SH4. I would estimate our conventional targeting accuracy is too good by a factor of two. If you implement a mast height rectification mod, such as that by a modder I admire greatly, you make SH4 into an arcade game with no connection to reality.

I'm making (as you've probably seen) a Mast Height and Draft Mod for RFB where the mast heights given for each ship are based on the data from the recognition manuals. I've found that some measurements come out pretty close, while others are off by a decent margin. Just goes to show how much the fog of war can play a part in games like this if modeled correctly.

[Suicide Charlie]

Didn't somebody develop a recognition manual for SHIII that used adapted information and pictures from actual manuals?

[Petur]

Nice

[virtualpender]

Those are excellent! Where did you come by an original of ONI 208-J?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

I'm making (as you've probably seen) a Mast Height and Draft Mod for RFB where the mast heights given for each ship are based on the data from the recognition manuals. I've found that some measurements come out pretty close, while others are off by a decent margin. Just goes to show how much the fog of war can play a part in games like this if modeled correctly.

You know you're gonna get a lot of complaints: "Some of your heights are WAY off! My research shows that!"

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Originally Posted by virtualpender

Those are excellent! Where did you come by an original of ONI 208-J?

http://www.history-on-cdrom.com/id167.htm

[Rockin Robbins]

Dick O'Kane! Dick O'Kane! Dick O'Kane!

Heh, heh, heh! This is the best thing that ever happened for the Dick O'Kane targeting method. Think I'll double the price.

[Hylander_1314]

Why not just use those in the book? They look close enough to the models in the game, and would really add to the immersion. Especially if there was a set for the IJN ships too.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Why not just use those in the book? They look close enough to the models in the game, and would really add to the immersion. Especially if there was a set for the IJN ships too.

Ehm, read my post above. All ships, including warships, will use the mast heights from the recognition manuals.

[LukeFF]

Couple more for you guys:

Nippon Maru (aka "Large Modern Tanker"):



Buzyun Maru (aka "Medium Old Tanker"):



Horai Maru (aka "Large Old Passenger Carrier"):

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Neat! And surprise!!!! Height measurements on stacks and cabin tops sometimes. It would be interesting to see how accurate those measurements are. For instance, on the Taihosan Maru (aka "Small Modern Composite Freighter") there are two height measurements, the top of the stack and the crosstree of the crane that show 40'. But they are clearly by inspection two different heights above the water! Either one or both of those 40' measurements is wrong.

It reinforces my view that stadimeter readings should remain very inaccurate in order for the game to be accurate. It also shows that it is way too easy to identify ships in SH4. I would estimate our conventional targeting accuracy is too good by a factor of two. If you implement a mast height rectification mod, such as that by a modder I admire greatly, you make SH4 into an arcade game with no connection to reality.

and

Originally Posted by Hitman

Yeah, I agree partially with you I myself do not use normally the recognition manual, I just try to estimate the mast or funnel heigths and use the rangefinder tool manually by setting myself the base heigth to be used. I love that SH4 allows to do that and miss it a lot in SH3 and the UBM Add-On

Fact is, after some trial and error I have become quite proficient at it and my ranges & bearings use to match what the Position Keeper shows. Playing this way is much rewarding

I've been playing a GWX campaign lately with the new Community Units Mod. ( I play on 100%, without weapon officer assistance or map contact updates.)

Why this is pertinent is that the huge number of new units and new ship dimensions basically makes the use of the recognition manual much less convenient than it used to be.

I've been relying much more heavily on estimates of target length and mast height. I use telemetry scales and of course the AOB finder we made for U-jagd for range (AOB itself i now judge by eye with near enough 100% accuracy), but usually in fact, i just estimate range visually - since i never actually plot this is plenty good enough for me.

Basically i think this approach would work well with SH4 - increasing the number of merchants by 3 or 4 fold would encourage estimate and inaccuracy for target ID. The merchants need not even be radically different from one another, and some need not have ID book entries at all! (I don't know if this would screw up the system or not)