Did all the US sub commanders go to USNA?

BH · 02-07-08, 01:48 PM

Just wondering ? It seems like a tight fraternity that was closed to officers that did not go to the academy.

Donner · 02-07-08, 02:03 PM

Out of 465 US submarine commanders in WW2, only 6 were reservists. Those being Howard Bissell, Jr. (Angler), Hoke S. Simpson (Bashaw), Louis C. Farley, Jr. (Billfish), James L. Hunnicut (Carp), Alexander L. Redon (Pipefish), Frank P. Hoskins (Trutta).

Cheers!

dean_acheson · 02-07-08, 02:09 PM

Donner, where did you get that from, and that quick?

It would have taken me forever to find that.

ekempey · 02-07-08, 02:25 PM

http://www.subsim.com/books/book_silent_victory.htm

This is where I would have found the info. The appendixes of this book list all WW2 Sub commanders among patrol and general statistics. This book is a must buy.

Donner · 02-07-08, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean_acheson

Donner, where did you get that from, and that quick?

It would have taken me forever to find that.

I purchased a privately published work by Jon D. Jacques, CPA titled Submarine Skippers of World War II: A Data Study. Entries listed by alphabetical order, by Academy class and by boat.

Great reference!

Wilcke · 02-07-08, 03:05 PM

Also in Silent Victory, check the Appendices. Lots of good info back there.

Nice find on that book there Donner.

Sailor Steve · 02-07-08, 08:05 PM

Ya gotta keep an eye on Donner...

He knows things.

dean_acheson · 02-07-08, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donner

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean_acheson

Donner, where did you get that from, and that quick?

It would have taken me forever to find that.

I purchased a privately published work by Jon D. Jacques, CPA titled Submarine Skippers of World War II: A Data Study. Entries listed by alphabetical order, by Academy class and by boat.

Great reference!

think that I saw this one on ebay, and haven't ever purchased it.

hyperion2206 · 02-08-08, 01:55 PM

CDR Howard Walter Gilmore of the USS Growler was an enlisted men "[...]who took a competitive examination to enter the Naval Academy. He had graduated in 1926, standing 34 in a class of 456." (Silent Victory, p. 269-270)

Wilko · 02-08-08, 02:18 PM

Great info, I got Silent Victory on my must buy list.

about 1/3 of the way through Thunder Below so it may well be next

BH · 02-22-08, 12:30 AM

I read where there was plenty of Non-USNA officers such as ensigns. The book take her deep mentions ensign and LT( jr) grads of U of Michigan, Holy Cross California and Oklahoma, but it interesting that especially compared with the German Navy, command was pretty much closed unless you were one of the chosen few to attend the Academy. It was not especially difficult at all in the german navy to obtain command. There is cases of foreign Volunteers taking command. I think there was even German commander who was born in New York, who was ironically killed by an American Liberators depth charge.

McBeck · 02-22-08, 04:21 AM

Anybody knows how to purchase Silent Victory through Amazon.co.uk, supporting Subsim? There used to be a link to the UK Amazon, but I cant seem to find it anymore

Sailor Steve · 02-22-08, 06:21 AM

At the bottom of this page, click on 'Subsim'. That will take you to the main page. On the right is a menu. Click on 'Game Store'. The Amazon link is the first thing you'll see.

BH · 06-12-08, 10:34 AM

Here is some additional information about this issue. At the end of 1944 when there was not many qualified USNA grads left to take command of the ships. By this time in the war most of the enlisted crew and executive officers were allmost entirely made of reservist. Apparently Admerial Lockwood(A USNA graduate) felt that only a UNSA could handle command. All that changed when Admiral Nimitz ordered Admiral Lockwood to select potiental officers from the reserve for command. Admerial Lockwood selected 11 of which 7 officers were able to take command before the war ended. While the US Submarine force was outstanding, I wonder how many experienced, qualified reservists were passed over because Admerial Lockwood only wanted USNA alums at command.

Feltan · 06-12-08, 01:53 PM

In all fairness to Admiral Lockwood, the naval reserve training program in the 1930's in no way represented what currently happens. While on the face of it, the policy seems very "old boy" and like a club -- but there was rationale, especially early in the war.

I recently read a passage, I believe from "Thunder Below," which had a naval reserve officer report for duty on an S boat. The officer in question had never been on a ship, and in fact had never seen an ocean before his first assignment.

Regards,
Feltan

02-07-08, 01:48 PM	#1
BH Loader Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 89 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Did all the US sub commanders go to USNA? Just wondering ? It seems like a tight fraternity that was closed to officers that did not go to the academy.

02-07-08, 02:03 PM	#2
Donner Officer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: On patrol... Posts: 244 Downloads: 113 Uploads: 0	Out of 465 US submarine commanders in WW2, only 6 were reservists. Those being Howard Bissell, Jr. (Angler), Hoke S. Simpson (Bashaw), Louis C. Farley, Jr. (Billfish), James L. Hunnicut (Carp), Alexander L. Redon (Pipefish), Frank P. Hoskins (Trutta). Cheers! __________________ "Sink 'Em All!"- Uncle Charlie....."Angriff, Ran, Versenken!"- Onkel Karl

02-07-08, 03:05 PM	#6
Wilcke The Old Man Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,441 Downloads: 234 Uploads: 0	Also in Silent Victory, check the Appendices. Lots of good info back there. Nice find on that book there Donner. __________________ Wilcke **For the best in Fleet Boats go to: Submarine Sim Central. http://forum.kickinbak.com/index.php Check out: A Brief Introduction to the Pacific Submarine War by Ducimus http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=128185 Operation Monsun plus OMEGU, the #1 ATO Solution for SH4! Signature Art by Gunfighter**

02-07-08, 08:05 PM	#7
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Ya gotta keep an eye on Donner... He knows things. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

02-08-08, 01:55 PM	#9
hyperion2206 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cologne, Germany Posts: 1,227 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	CDR Howard Walter Gilmore of the USS Growler was an enlisted men "[...]who took a competitive examination to enter the Naval Academy. He had graduated in 1926, standing 34 in a class of 456." (Silent Victory, p. 269-270) __________________ Career of Captain Jack Shaftoe:

02-07-08, 02:09 PM	#3
dean_acheson Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Midwest - USA Posts: 1,057 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	Donner, where did you get that from, and that quick? It would have taken me forever to find that.

02-07-08, 02:25 PM	#4
ekempey Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 95 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	http://www.subsim.com/books/book_silent_victory.htm This is where I would have found the info. The appendixes of this book list all WW2 Sub commanders among patrol and general statistics. This book is a must buy.

02-08-08, 02:18 PM	#10
Wilko Officer Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Aussie Posts: 249 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Great info, I got Silent Victory on my must buy list. about 1/3 of the way through Thunder Below so it may well be next __________________ You take it easy... and have a nice day

02-22-08, 12:30 AM	#11
BH Loader Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 89 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	I read where there was plenty of Non-USNA officers such as ensigns. The book take her deep mentions ensign and LT( jr) grads of U of Michigan, Holy Cross California and Oklahoma, but it interesting that especially compared with the German Navy, command was pretty much closed unless you were one of the chosen few to attend the Academy. It was not especially difficult at all in the german navy to obtain command. There is cases of foreign Volunteers taking command. I think there was even German commander who was born in New York, who was ironically killed by an American Liberators depth charge.

02-22-08, 04:21 AM	#12
McBeck Admiral Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,027 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Anybody knows how to purchase Silent Victory through Amazon.co.uk, supporting Subsim? There used to be a link to the UK Amazon, but I cant seem to find it anymore __________________ "I like subcommanders...they dont have time for bull**!" Proud member of the Subsim army of zombies Becks website

02-22-08, 06:21 AM	#13
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	At the bottom of this page, click on 'Subsim'. That will take you to the main page. On the right is a menu. Click on 'Game Store'. The Amazon link is the first thing you'll see. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

06-12-08, 10:34 AM	#14
BH Loader Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 89 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Here is some additional information about this issue. At the end of 1944 when there was not many qualified USNA grads left to take command of the ships. By this time in the war most of the enlisted crew and executive officers were allmost entirely made of reservist. Apparently Admerial Lockwood(A USNA graduate) felt that only a UNSA could handle command. All that changed when Admiral Nimitz ordered Admiral Lockwood to select potiental officers from the reserve for command. Admerial Lockwood selected 11 of which 7 officers were able to take command before the war ended. While the US Submarine force was outstanding, I wonder how many experienced, qualified reservists were passed over because Admerial Lockwood only wanted USNA alums at command.

06-12-08, 01:53 PM	#15
Feltan Watch Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 28 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	In all fairness to Admiral Lockwood, the naval reserve training program in the 1930's in no way represented what currently happens. While on the face of it, the policy seems very "old boy" and like a club -- but there was rationale, especially early in the war. I recently read a passage, I believe from "Thunder Below," which had a naval reserve officer report for duty on an S boat. The officer in question had never been on a ship, and in fact had never seen an ocean before his first assignment. Regards, Feltan