Situation...

Deep-Six · 05-14-08, 10:27 PM

I have a situation that begs to be brought up. Currently I am south of Tokyo Bay on a heading of WNW and I am submerged. I have spotted two Jap merchants heading NNW, moving at 17 kts. 7000+m seperate me from them.

Now here are my two choices, I could surface and get to 2000m and then submerge or 2 stay submerged.

What would you do in my situation.

Zero Niner · 05-14-08, 11:06 PM

Depends.

Day? Night?
Sub damaged?
Are they heading towards you? Away from you?
Do you have radar? (Easier to do an end-around if you have)
Any escorts?
If night, where is the moon, relative to your planned approach route?

Too many variables to give a simple answer, need more details.

Initial consideration - 17 knots is awfully fast for a merchant, perhaps they are troop ships? This is the only category of merchants that can go that fast, I think. Unless they are headed for you, you won't be able to intercept them submerged.

MonTana_Prussian · 05-14-08, 11:30 PM

I have to agree with Zero-Niner. Too many variables here. Give us some more info and maybe I can give an answer for you.

Deep-Six · 05-15-08, 12:07 AM

Ok, I did forget to add that this is daytime. and my sonar does detect an escort. It is not visible just yet. I dont have radar, only air-search. Early Gato class 1942.

Teh_Diplomat · 05-15-08, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep-Six

Ok, I did forget to add that this is daytime. and my sonar does detect an escort. It is not visible just yet. I dont have radar, only air-search. Early Gato class 1942.

Stalk the Merchants by matching speed during the day remaining at the same distance - granted you have the fuel for this and the return to base - then when night falls you can sneak in closer undetected for better odds for the shots.

You could also - depending on their course relative to yours - meet them at a later point by plotting their couse with the ruler, and triangle. I always estimate this part, but for parity with regards to speed you would both get the same distance. Ideally you would like to be going faster than the enemy to get ahead of him and lie in wait in a position to line up a shot for the best odds of succesful torpedo hits.

Zero Niner · 05-15-08, 01:43 AM

Hmmm, so there's at least one escort. It's best to assume there's more than one and plan accordingly.

At 17 kts, you'll have to go at flank speed in order to outpace the convoy. I think it's best to do an end around ie get ahead of the convoy & lie in wait. It'll be slow as your overtake speed is only 4 kts. If fuel is a concern I'd suggest letting this one go. Better to live to fight another day, etc. There'll always be another target.

kikn79 · 05-15-08, 07:27 AM

In the words of Cmdr Morton:

"Don't stop till they're on the bottom"

"Sink the Sunzabitches"

Quillan · 05-15-08, 08:23 AM

What is their position relative to yours? If they are heading in your direction, I'd stay underwater and try to get as close as possible without being detected. If they're 7000 yards away in the daytime, you WILL be spotted if you surface. As it stands right now, 7k yards is within Mk XIV torpedo range at slow speed, so I'd try for a shot. If they're moving at 17 knots, it almost has to be passenger ships of some sort used as troop transports.

Deep-Six · 05-15-08, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quillan

What is their position relative to yours? If they are heading in your direction, I'd stay underwater and try to get as close as possible without being detected. If they're 7000 yards away in the daytime, you WILL be spotted if you surface. As it stands right now, 7k yards is within Mk XIV torpedo range at slow speed, so I'd try for a shot. If they're moving at 17 knots, it almost has to be passenger ships of some sort used as troop transports.

You sir, are correct, they are Old passenger liners. I will let these guys go and wait for a better one to come around. I will try to post a pic and let you guys take a look at it.

Deep-Six · 05-15-08, 10:13 AM

Here is the picture that I promised.

Quillan · 05-15-08, 10:41 AM

You could try a shot there, but it would be iffy. They're moving away from you and rather quickly. It'd probably take something around 8 minutes for the torpedoes to cover the distance, and at 17 knots they'll be almost 5000 yards on from where they are now. Even if that's not outside the max range of the torpedo at the point of impact, the angle would be very steep and you might not get a detonation. Couple that with the date (lots of deep runners and duds in 1942) I'd say pass on them like you decided. That looks like the Izu peninsula there? They are so close to making port you'd never be able to pull off an end-around before they made port.

Zero Niner · 05-15-08, 08:14 PM

Also they'll have plenty of warning from the wake/bubble stream of the torps fired from such a long distance, it would easy to evade if they spot it early enough. Probably the right decision under the circumstances. Part of the fun of SH4 is making tactical decisions.

MonTana_Prussian · 05-15-08, 10:26 PM

With all the new info you provided,I'd go with your call and let them go. Too many risks involved.

gimpy117 · 05-16-08, 06:34 AM

If they are at 17 knots they are ocean liners and are at least 8,000 some tons a peice and might even be biger ones...i dunno if the small ones can move that fast.

05-14-08, 10:27 PM	#1
Deep-Six Sonar Guy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 399 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Situation... I have a situation that begs to be brought up. Currently I am south of Tokyo Bay on a heading of WNW and I am submerged. I have spotted two Jap merchants heading NNW, moving at 17 kts. 7000+m seperate me from them. Now here are my two choices, I could surface and get to 2000m and then submerge or 2 stay submerged. What would you do in my situation. __________________

05-15-08, 12:07 AM	#4
Deep-Six Sonar Guy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 399 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Ok, I did forget to add that this is daytime. and my sonar does detect an escort. It is not visible just yet. I dont have radar, only air-search. Early Gato class 1942. __________________

05-15-08, 08:23 AM	#8
Quillan Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 579 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	What is their position relative to yours? If they are heading in your direction, I'd stay underwater and try to get as close as possible without being detected. If they're 7000 yards away in the daytime, you WILL be spotted if you surface. As it stands right now, 7k yards is within Mk XIV torpedo range at slow speed, so I'd try for a shot. If they're moving at 17 knots, it almost has to be passenger ships of some sort used as troop transports. __________________ We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.

05-15-08, 10:13 AM	#10
Deep-Six Sonar Guy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 399 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Here is the picture that I promised. __________________

05-15-08, 10:41 AM	#11
Quillan Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 579 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	You could try a shot there, but it would be iffy. They're moving away from you and rather quickly. It'd probably take something around 8 minutes for the torpedoes to cover the distance, and at 17 knots they'll be almost 5000 yards on from where they are now. Even if that's not outside the max range of the torpedo at the point of impact, the angle would be very steep and you might not get a detonation. Couple that with the date (lots of deep runners and duds in 1942) I'd say pass on them like you decided. That looks like the Izu peninsula there? They are so close to making port you'd never be able to pull off an end-around before they made port. __________________ We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.

05-14-08, 11:06 PM	#2
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,033 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Depends. Day? Night? Sub damaged? Are they heading towards you? Away from you? Do you have radar? (Easier to do an end-around if you have) Any escorts? If night, where is the moon, relative to your planned approach route? Too many variables to give a simple answer, need more details. Initial consideration - 17 knots is awfully fast for a merchant, perhaps they are troop ships? This is the only category of merchants that can go that fast, I think. Unless they are headed for you, you won't be able to intercept them submerged.

05-14-08, 11:30 PM	#3
MonTana_Prussian Ensign Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Helena,Montana Posts: 234 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I have to agree with Zero-Niner. Too many variables here. Give us some more info and maybe I can give an answer for you.

05-15-08, 01:43 AM	#6
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,033 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Hmmm, so there's at least one escort. It's best to assume there's more than one and plan accordingly. At 17 kts, you'll have to go at flank speed in order to outpace the convoy. I think it's best to do an end around ie get ahead of the convoy & lie in wait. It'll be slow as your overtake speed is only 4 kts. If fuel is a concern I'd suggest letting this one go. Better to live to fight another day, etc. There'll always be another target.

05-15-08, 07:27 AM	#7
kikn79 Medic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 166 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	In the words of Cmdr Morton: "Don't stop till they're on the bottom" "Sink the Sunzabitches"

05-15-08, 08:14 PM	#12
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,033 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Also they'll have plenty of warning from the wake/bubble stream of the torps fired from such a long distance, it would easy to evade if they spot it early enough. Probably the right decision under the circumstances. Part of the fun of SH4 is making tactical decisions.

05-15-08, 10:26 PM	#13
MonTana_Prussian Ensign Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Helena,Montana Posts: 234 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	With all the new info you provided,I'd go with your call and let them go. Too many risks involved.

05-16-08, 06:34 AM	#14
gimpy117 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 3,243 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 0	If they are at 17 knots they are ocean liners and are at least 8,000 some tons a peice and might even be biger ones...i dunno if the small ones can move that fast. __________________ Member of the Subsim Zombie Army