US Navy, Chinese say hello!

[Steel_Tomb]

Interesting article. They did well to get so close to a CV without being detected. What do you guys think about this? I'm guessing the song class is a electric/diesel boat like the Kilo?

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtri...hina_03_28.asp

[Dowly]

Adm. Tim Keating, commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, told a House hearing March 13, that “at that time, a carrier battle group was not involved in anti-submarine-specific operations. They were doing other things.

Wow, talking about letting your guard down. I'm not that familiar with surface vessels, but shouldnt there be someone looking out for subs all the time?

[Steel_Tomb]

Exactly, perhaps this argument over the use of active sonar is costing the US Navy a little bit too much in security? I mean those electric subs are damned quiet so passive sonar would make it quite hard to detect, active on the other hand is not... U-boat Kaluens will agree with this! =

Do the Chinese have Skyval's btw? If so, shiiiit lol... if things don't improve the US can kiss goodbye to a few carriers in any future conflict with china.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

Exactly, perhaps this argument over the use of active sonar is costing the US Navy a little bit too much in security? I mean those electric subs are damned quiet so passive sonar would make it quite hard to detect, active on the other hand is not... U-boat Kaluens will agree with this! =

Aye, but active sonar is like a flashlight in a dark room. You can see someone, but everyone can see you. With the Chinese navy having plenty of Sunburn missiles, I can't see any CVBG popping up with a "Here I am" burst of active sonar

[Dowly]

No idea about the China's weaponry. But as for the US carriers getting their butts kicked, dont know. If it would be a war time, I'm sure they would be listening 24/7 for underwater threats. Then again, it's a whole another thing if they can hear the sub.

[DeepIron]

Well, part of the issue is in regards to using active sonar and the damage it causes to marine life, especially cetaceans. There have been legal proceedings in the US restricting the use of active sonar in some areas, the Navy has been trying to remain sensitive to the issue and has curbed it's use somewhat. There are number of citations both for and against it's use on the 'net...

Can't ping 'em, can't find 'em...

[Steel_Tomb]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Aye, but active sonar is like a flashlight in a dark room. You can see someone, but everyone can see you. With the Chinese navy having plenty of Sunburn missiles, I can't see any CVBG popping up with a "Here I am" burst of active sonar

True, but a Carrier task force isn't exactly the quiestest thing sailing the worlds oceans lol. I suppose the only advantage is that the smaller subs need to get closer to engage properly, given the US more time to locate anything suspicious on their passive sonar before giving it a "hello, bugger off" in the form of a ping or two (perhaps coupled with a few sonabouys to keep track of the little tinker

Another point. How do you think this episode will effect US & Taiwanese Naval doctrine in terms of the threat posed by China.

[bradclark1]

Well, not good for CV group commanders promotion potential.
I think it's a good thing because if that isn't a wakeup call I don't know what is and give thanks this is peace time. A very embarrassing situation.

[Trex]

The Kitty Hawk must be a sub-magnet. Didn't this same thing happen a couple of years ago to her?

The Song class is not a PRC-produced Kilo; it is a native design, but yes, it's a conventionally-powered sub. The first ones were supposed to be very noisy, but they may have fine-tuned that. All the same, that's pretty close; it would appear that nobody was listening. Maybe American Idol was on or something.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

It wouldnt suprise me if China got sent some Shkval's during the Soviet Union days. Quick, but unreliable and noisy. But still, dropping the ball big time here from US ASW.

[Steel_Tomb]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

It wouldnt suprise me if China got sent some Shkval's during the Soviet Union days. Quick, but unreliable and noisy. But still, dropping the ball big time here from US ASW.

I thought that although noisy there was practically no escape from a shykval due to its speed, am I wrong?

[Tchocky]

AFAIK it isn't a guided weapon, but at the speed it moves it doesn't need to be

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

I thought that although noisy there was practically no escape from a shykval due to its speed, am I wrong?

Depends on the range at which its fired, which brings Tchock's post into play - if it aint guided, a sharp course change to either side of its path at flank should be good, but thats assuming you've got that maneuverability. Submarines do, but if its an aircraft carrier, you gotta hope for the best :p

[Steel_Tomb]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

Depends on the range at which its fired, which brings Tchock's post into play - if it aint guided, a sharp course change to either side of its path at flank should be good, but thats assuming you've got that maneuverability. Submarines do, but if its an aircraft carrier, you gotta hope for the best :p

And hope that the DD screen picks them up first and turns them defensive before they can get an accurate TMA solution!

[TLAM Strike]

The PLAN does have a number of Shkvals, but their Kilo's can't use them (unless they have been modified since the Russians built them). As for their home built subs who knows. Also only PLAAF jets and the PLAN's Sovermenny class DDGs can use N-22 Sunburn missiles since they are way to large for torpedo tube launch. However the PLAN does have a number of N-27 Alfa ASMs which are quite dangrous, they are launched from Kilo Improved class subs. PLAN SSNs and SSKs (Han, Song, Yuan, and a Single Ming) do have the capablity to launch C-802 missiles from torpedo tubes (or in the case of that Ming dedcated launch tubes like on an Echo SSGN), the C-802 is the equivlent of an Exocet missile.