l33t Akula AI...

[Steel_Tomb]

I just got owned by an Akula, but I was doing 3knts 200ft bellow the layer, yet he found me and fired about five eels at me yet I couldn't even pick him up on my towed array, but he wasn't in my baffles and I hadn't turned so no need to wait for it to straighten out (yes I used to show truth cheat to see what was going on). I was under the impression such circumstances would make me virtually undetectable to passive sonar going so slow under the thermal layer because the sonar would "bounce" off the layer?? Looks like Lwami made the AI a bit TOO good or did I make a fundamental mistake??

[phil21]

Never think you are undetectable in DW!

Being under a layer at low speed does not make you undetectable. A layer makes it harder to find something on the other side of it (in general, but there are also a lot of exceptions). But the effect also applies for you. You couldn't hear him because he was above the layer, dipping his TA down, under the layer where he could hear you...a normal tactic. Then he closed distance and sent some fishes...

The other thing is your Speed. With 3 knots under the layer you 'lose' your TA. As the Akula dipped its TA down under the layer by going slow, you let your TA decend deep into the water. This rendered it pratical unusable for detection since it was way to deep to detect anything above the layer....AFAIK you should do at least 4-5 knots to keep your array straight.

Check these Links at the CADC: http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...ad.php?t=21734
http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...ad.php?t=20769
It helped me alot to understand some principles of ASW (Thanks to ML for this!).

Phil

[Steel_Tomb]

The akula was at about 300 ft doing 5knts. How long is a towed array? Not nearly 300ft surely? I was hoping to drift underneath him and come up behind in his baffles. Worked a charm with a Typhoon the other day , I was right behind him and he didn't even know until I let loose an Mk58 ADCAP.

[Dr.Sid]

AFAIK AI units fakes dropping of TA by having more sensors at different depths which washouts at different speeds. This is done in LWAMI, original DW does not have it.
In that case Akula had to be just moving slow to hear you.

As for the depth effects and layer, check also this recent discussion:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=131383

[phil21]

TAs are longer than 300ft.

With LWAMI the cable length was changed to aproximate real-world data:
TB-16—2600ft,
TB-23—2950ft,
TB-29—3300ft,
Pelamida TA—2300/701m.

Don't know how long they are in stock DW, but they should be longer than 300ft....

[Steel_Tomb]

So you can rest just above the layer, go to nearly a full stop and let your TA just fall below the layer, thats pretty cunning! I was very surprised earlier to find an AI sub try to evade me by playing dead on the seabed. Very cool. I guess I got used to stock AI. I suppose its like going from stock SHIII to GWX in terms of escort effectiveness! I only just realized how much works gone into the models in LWAMI, the stock victor and typhoon look horrible, nice to see someone gave them some love in the mod . Nice work!

By the way, completely different topic. In RSR campaign when you have to attack the task force complete with carriers, destroyers and amphibious craft. Am I right in thinking you have to attack the alligators and the like? It doesn't say what targets I should go for just "stop the task force" I don't think I can take down some 15 warships!

Heres a screen shot of a quick mission earlier. I managed after about two hours real time to sneak behind this Victor III SSN hoping to have some fun taunting him in his baffles, in typical ruskie fashion he did a crazy ivan! Was like in The Hunt For Red October lol, but he still died about five minutes later.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

The akula was at about 300 ft doing 5knts. How long is a towed array? Not nearly 300ft surely? I was hoping to drift underneath him and come up behind in his baffles. Worked a charm with a Typhoon the other day , I was right behind him and he didn't even know until I let loose an Mk58 ADCAP.

Well that's quite a feat if you pulled that off against the Typhoon in LWAMI...The Typhoon has a decent towed array--not as good as the Akula's, but still pretty decent. I wouldn't count on it being something you can pull off against capable submarines on a regular basis though. Acoustic conditions might have been different between the two instances too.

Phil's right about you never being undetectable. Get close enough and the shadow zone goes away, and he'll hear you as if you were on the same side of the layer. And what's more, if the Akula is slow enough, LWAMI models a capability for it to listen below its current depth (although I suspect that this is occuring at speeds higher than it should so I'll ask him to have a look at it).

The sensor entity for the AI Pelamida TA is 300 (?) behind the ship. I don't know if that is in meters or feet though; I suspect meters.

[Steel_Tomb]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Well that's quite a feat if you pulled that off against the Typhoon in LWAMI...The Typhoon has a decent towed array--not as good as the Akula's, but still pretty decent. I wouldn't count on it being something you can pull off against capable submarines on a regular basis though. Acoustic conditions might have been different between the two instances too.

Phil's right about you never being undetectable. Get close enough and the shadow zone goes away, and he'll hear you as if you were on the same side of the layer. And what's more, if the Akula is slow enough, LWAMI models a capability for it to listen below its current depth (although I suspect that this is occuring at speeds higher than it should so I'll ask him to have a look at it).

The sensor entity for the AI Pelamida TA is 300 (?) behind the ship. I don't know if that is in meters or feet though; I suspect meters.

I suspect beginners luck was on my side, the typhoon was "decks awash" and cavating in shallow water, so I suspect that any towed array, like mine, was dragging along the seabed. My Seawolf just homed in and sat behind for about five minutes, after which I just came to a full stop and let loose an ADCAP which I set to go active on of the tube, no messing with safeties :p. I would show you the screenshot, but I forgot to save it before restarting my computer . Loving LwAmi though, really awesome stuff.

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Well that's quite a feat if you pulled that off against the Typhoon in LWAMI...The Typhoon has a decent towed array--not as good as the Akula's, but still pretty decent. I wouldn't count on it being something you can pull off against capable submarines on a regular basis though. Acoustic conditions might have been different between the two instances too.

Phil's right about you never being undetectable. Get close enough and the shadow zone goes away, and he'll hear you as if you were on the same side of the layer. And what's more, if the Akula is slow enough, LWAMI models a capability for it to listen below its current depth (although I suspect that this is occuring at speeds higher than it should so I'll ask him to have a look at it).

The sensor entity for the AI Pelamida TA is 300 (?) behind the ship. I don't know if that is in meters or feet though; I suspect meters.

well I was going to offer the over under with the tail but I see someone
did it.
just to say though that I love BSG absolutely artistic filming and
high intensity drama

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

well I was going to offer the over under with the tail but I see someone
did it.
just to say though that I love BSG absolutely artistic filming and
high intensity drama

Tomorrow's gonna be the best day of 2008!