How often was a sub attacked by aircraft on patrol?

AkbarGulag · 02-20-08, 09:42 AM

This is probably the greatest place to ask this, as many of you here have read books or actual reports/patrol-logs, for US subs in the "Pacific Theatre". How often/frequently did subs and their crews face air threats?. Clearly some would have been more or less fortunate than others, but there must have been some accepted norm while in theatre. How high was the risk for American boats?

DavyJonesFootlocker · 02-20-08, 09:47 AM

Not that much I think as much of the air battles were between carrier groups.

But check here a place I get some info on other stuff.http://www.ww2pacific.com/

Maybe it's mentioned there.

SteamWake · 02-20-08, 10:07 AM

Actually its a pretty good place to ask.

Subs were attacked fairly often but nothing compared to what we seen in the game.

Im sure someone will come in and post historical accuracy items.

Capn_Sinky · 02-20-08, 10:19 AM

I have read that early in the war it was a very real threat. I don't think it was as bad as trying to cross the Bay of Biscay in 1943 for the German U boats, but it was definately on their mind. Read of several occasions where a crash dive was initiated because a jumpy sailor standing watch spoted a seagull

In Ed. Beech's book Submarine he spoke frequently of spending their days at periscope depth and comming up at night to charge batts and make up the distance when off the coast of Japan.

Bowfin is a good book too. Read it back in HS while playing Silent Service on the C128 (Old School

). Never read of them engaging aircraft either. Always dive as soon as radar picked up a blip. AA weapons on submarines sunk way more sampans than aircraft.

Most submarine cmdrs didn't like aircraft at all regardless of the insigna on the wing. Too much of a chance to be mis-identified. Nothing sucks more than being sunk by your on guys. (RIP Seawolf

) Has anyone had a friendly attach in SHIV? Just currious if that was considered in prog the AI.

Capn_Sinky
O.I.C.I.C.
Officer In Charge of Ice Cream
USS Drum

Gino · 02-20-08, 11:40 AM

In the Appendix of a patrol report it is mentioned what contacts the submarine had made. Engagements I think are very rare if at all. It was more like: Contact on SD, Clear the bridge, Dive, Dive...

Example: USS Cod
First patrol: [Oct 22 1943 - Dec 16 1943] 10 ships 14 aircraft
Second patrol: [Jan 11 1944 - Mar 13 1944] 16 ships 13 aircraft
Third patrol: [Apr 6 1944 - Jun 1 1944] 24 ships 19 air
Fourth patrol: [Jul 3 1944 - August 25 1944] 55 ships 54 aircraft
Fifth patrol: [Sep 18 1944 - Nov 20 1944] 54 ships 117 aircraft
Sixth patrol: [Mar 24 1945 - May 29 1945] 4 ships >170 aircraft
Seventh patrol: [June 26 1945 - August 13 1945]:33 ships Aircraft not mentioned as number but reported as 'few in number'

So, was there a threat? You betcha. A good strafing run is just as dangerous for a submarine as a bomb. I think it was the History channel that had a documentary on what a good performed strafing run did in France... It was sometimes better than a direct hit from a bomb. And a submarine doesn't have to take that much damage to make it useless.

groetjes,

DavyJonesFootlocker · 02-20-08, 11:49 AM

Depends on the calibre of the guns. If you use 20mm, 30mm or those awesome 40mm cannon on the Hurricane 2D (although they were for anti-tank use) then you'll see some real damage. But I really don't think there were that much encounters.

AkbarGulag · 02-20-08, 11:57 AM

Thanks for the resource DavyJones

you luker you

Gino, thats brilliant. Not only have you supplied an interesting snipet, I now know what to search for also

Just that one log of 7 patrols tells a story. It looks like the japanese really tried to fight back, but a lot could also be where the submarine was operating. I guess if someone went to the effort, they could build a pretty good picture form logs like this, with corresponding patrol zones + times/dates.

Still, meeting over 170 aircraft contacts in an 8 and a half week period is a LOT. I bet those guys really valued the SD radar

Captain Vlad · 02-20-08, 09:29 PM

Read Dick O'Kane's book, and they saw plenty of aircraft. The aircraft rarely saw them, however, as the Tang seemed to dive if there was a hint of an airplane in the vicinity.

02-20-08, 09:42 AM	#1
AkbarGulag Samurai Navy Join Date: May 2007 Location: cfgdatsimZOMGddstgasns Posts: 571 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 1	How often was a sub attacked by aircraft on patrol? This is probably the greatest place to ask this, as many of you here have read books or actual reports/patrol-logs, for US subs in the "Pacific Theatre". How often/frequently did subs and their crews face air threats?. Clearly some would have been more or less fortunate than others, but there must have been some accepted norm while in theatre. How high was the risk for American boats? __________________ "6 days into his patrol, the first enemy ship was spotted... a trawler... ...It was at this point, Captain AkbarGulag realised how green his crew was..."

02-20-08, 09:47 AM	#2
DavyJonesFootlocker The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stink Drunk in Trinidad Posts: 1,572 Downloads: 138 Uploads: 0	Not that much I think as much of the air battles were between carrier groups. But check here a place I get some info on other stuff.http://www.ww2pacific.com/ Maybe it's mentioned there. __________________ "Silence means death. Stand on your feet. Inner fear your worst enemy."- Sepultura. My Silent Hunter 5 mantra is this......"Torpedo missed, sir!" A P-400 is a P-40 with a Zero after it. A proud member of the Wikipedia Haters Club

02-20-08, 10:19 AM	#4
Capn_Sinky Bosun Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Winder, GA Posts: 64 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I have read that early in the war it was a very real threat. I don't think it was as bad as trying to cross the Bay of Biscay in 1943 for the German U boats, but it was definately on their mind. Read of several occasions where a crash dive was initiated because a jumpy sailor standing watch spoted a seagull In Ed. Beech's book Submarine he spoke frequently of spending their days at periscope depth and comming up at night to charge batts and make up the distance when off the coast of Japan. Bowfin is a good book too. Read it back in HS while playing Silent Service on the C128 (Old School ). Never read of them engaging aircraft either. Always dive as soon as radar picked up a blip. AA weapons on submarines sunk way more sampans than aircraft. Most submarine cmdrs didn't like aircraft at all regardless of the insigna on the wing. Too much of a chance to be mis-identified. Nothing sucks more than being sunk by your on guys. (RIP Seawolf ) Has anyone had a friendly attach in SHIV? Just currious if that was considered in prog the AI. Capn_Sinky O.I.C.I.C. Officer In Charge of Ice Cream USS Drum __________________ Good Luck and Good Hunting! Capn_ Sinky (aka Stinky) O.I.C.I.C. Officer In Charge of Ice Cream Current Command: USS Drum Apr42 "Frankly the idea that a stinkpot could smell so bad that men who haven't bathed or changed their clothes in months would choose to abandon their ships mid ocean rather than fight, scares the heck out of me!" Unknown Historian

02-20-08, 11:40 AM	#5
Gino Pacific Sub Expert Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 148 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	In the Appendix of a patrol report it is mentioned what contacts the submarine had made. Engagements I think are very rare if at all. It was more like: Contact on SD, Clear the bridge, Dive, Dive... Example: USS Cod First patrol: [Oct 22 1943 - Dec 16 1943] 10 ships 14 aircraft Second patrol: [Jan 11 1944 - Mar 13 1944] 16 ships 13 aircraft Third patrol: [Apr 6 1944 - Jun 1 1944] 24 ships 19 air Fourth patrol: [Jul 3 1944 - August 25 1944] 55 ships 54 aircraft Fifth patrol: [Sep 18 1944 - Nov 20 1944] 54 ships 117 aircraft Sixth patrol: [Mar 24 1945 - May 29 1945] 4 ships >170 aircraft Seventh patrol: [June 26 1945 - August 13 1945]:33 ships Aircraft not mentioned as number but reported as 'few in number' So, was there a threat? You betcha. A good strafing run is just as dangerous for a submarine as a bomb. I think it was the History channel that had a documentary on what a good performed strafing run did in France... It was sometimes better than a direct hit from a bomb. And a submarine doesn't have to take that much damage to make it useless. groetjes, __________________ Gino

02-20-08, 11:49 AM	#6
DavyJonesFootlocker The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stink Drunk in Trinidad Posts: 1,572 Downloads: 138 Uploads: 0	Depends on the calibre of the guns. If you use 20mm, 30mm or those awesome 40mm cannon on the Hurricane 2D (although they were for anti-tank use) then you'll see some real damage. But I really don't think there were that much encounters. __________________ "Silence means death. Stand on your feet. Inner fear your worst enemy."- Sepultura. My Silent Hunter 5 mantra is this......"Torpedo missed, sir!" A P-400 is a P-40 with a Zero after it. A proud member of the Wikipedia Haters Club

02-20-08, 10:07 AM	#3
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Actually its a pretty good place to ask. Subs were attacked fairly often but nothing compared to what we seen in the game. Im sure someone will come in and post historical accuracy items.

02-20-08, 11:57 AM	#7
AkbarGulag Samurai Navy Join Date: May 2007 Location: cfgdatsimZOMGddstgasns Posts: 571 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 1	Thanks for the resource DavyJones you luker you Gino, thats brilliant. Not only have you supplied an interesting snipet, I now know what to search for also Just that one log of 7 patrols tells a story. It looks like the japanese really tried to fight back, but a lot could also be where the submarine was operating. I guess if someone went to the effort, they could build a pretty good picture form logs like this, with corresponding patrol zones + times/dates. Still, meeting over 170 aircraft contacts in an 8 and a half week period is a LOT. I bet those guys really valued the SD radar __________________ "6 days into his patrol, the first enemy ship was spotted... a trawler... ...It was at this point, Captain AkbarGulag realised how green his crew was..."

02-20-08, 09:29 PM	#8
Captain Vlad Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pollard, Oklahoma Posts: 679 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Read Dick O'Kane's book, and they saw plenty of aircraft. The aircraft rarely saw them, however, as the Tang seemed to dive if there was a hint of an airplane in the vicinity. __________________ "Stop sounding battlestations just to hear the alarm."