Dangerous Waters Overhaul

tonibamestre · 01-25-08, 03:45 PM

Well guys and modders,my opinnion is that our actual DW needs an overhaul work.Talking about graphics,I would touch terrain textures making them more realistic.Correct elevations using SRTM,coast lines,harbours,ports and naval bases,all this would give an impressive aspect to the game.Also would be interesting the capability to navigate the whole globe-sea mass,not just be able to play a singular map predetermined.
And finaly,a repaint to the efects,smokes,blasts,explosions and trails.
The desirable would be that SCS team could remaster all that mentioned on a lets say DW Flight II series but.................time will tell.

Best regards.

01-27-08, 11:49 AM

Old news. I myself would love to see upgraded DW too. Atleast graphics as good as SH3 and explosions too. BUT, as it is in sim world, gameplay is the thing.Not surrounding graphics.

OneShot · 01-27-08, 06:10 PM

Half of what you are asking for isn't doable unless SCS either modifies the GraphicEngine themselves or opens up the code for others to improve. I'm pretty sure that neither won't happen and just to state the obvious ... yes it has been discussed over and over and over again why they should but wouldn't open the source code so lets try to not go into this discussion AGAIN (if you wanna know more about this simply browse/search within this forum).

Things that can be improved to a certain extend are stuff like textures and sounds (you always have to work within the limitations of the engine tho) or modells. Work on this is already underway or has been done ... there are a couple of sound mods around as well as some graphic improvements (one of the first mods was Kegetys water texture mod - which is now included in the LwAmi Mod Package). Still in the aforementioned area there is more room for improvement.

On a personal note ... would I like to see more eye-candy in DW - certainly! Do I really need it - absolutly not. Why ? The parts of the game I look at extensively are done very nice and do a good job ... the station panels, hence I'm satisfied. Furthermore instead of concentrating on (in my eyes) useless or at least rather unimportant eye-candy (remember this is an tactical ASW simulator) they should fix some issues and still/again existent bugs in the NSE or whatever part of the program is responsible. However, this has been discussed more then once as well, so I will just step down from my soap box and hit the rack.

Molon Labe · 01-27-08, 06:13 PM

Yeah, "Overhaul" is probably the wrong title for this thread. Seems this is more concerned with a "facelift."

goldorak · 01-28-08, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imamar

Old news. I myself would love to see upgraded DW too. Atleast graphics as good as SH3 and explosions too. BUT, as it is in sim world, gameplay is the thing.Not surrounding graphics.

False False False.
This is the excuse of companies that don't want to invest into the whole product.
Why is it that during the ninties every simulation that came out (racing, naval, or air) pushed the envelope on all fronts, and now its a miracle if we have only the gameplay and every other aspect be damned ?
Who's to say that a modern naval sim can't have up to date graphics ? :p

01-28-08, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldorak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imamar

Old news. I myself would love to see upgraded DW too. Atleast graphics as good as SH3 and explosions too. BUT, as it is in sim world, gameplay is the thing.Not surrounding graphics.

False False False.
This is the excuse of companies that don't want to invest into the whole product.
Why is it that during the ninties every simulation that came out (racing, naval, or air) pushed the envelope on all fronts, and now its a miracle if we have only the gameplay and every other aspect be damned ?
Who's to say that a modern naval sim can't have up to date graphics ? :p

Me myself and i belong to the hardcore gamers for over 20 years. So graphics dont play big part in my gaming experience. I would love to see for example new Falcon 5.0 with graphics as good as Ace combat 6. But every moment working with good graphics is out of realism.Because? Most of the simulators dont have huge budgets , or they might have but their main priority is to make the sim as real as it gets. Not eye candy. They should have 2 different work groups and 2 different and huge budgets to make a good sim with amazing graphics. And that is just not realistic.

OneShot · 01-28-08, 10:47 AM

Well, its possible to have great graphics and at the same time high realism ... BUT this takes a lot of effort, money and especially time. Unfortunatly the majority of developers lacks one of those ingredients and have to settle for compromises or simply less of everything. For example, while SH3/SH4 has really nice graphics and all, it cannot compete in terms of realism with DW (even with all "help" disabled) - to clarify I'm talking about stock games ... not aftermarket modding by the community.

Somewhere down the road are exceptions but those seem to be in the flightsim area ... most notably here FighterOps and DCS:Black Shark which at least according to everything thats in the public domain are both high fidelity sims and look spectacular.

Aside from that, as the history of computer games has proven ... as far as sims go ... the top notch graphic envelope pushing sims have always been flight sims first and foremost (which doesn't mean that other sims didnt look good too). In our specific case with DW we have to look at the setting of the game ... its a modern tactical ASW simulator and unlike WW2 the subs today stay over 90% of their time below the waves ... there is no need for fancy graphics ... but the things you look at most should look good which are the individual stations. Heck, I'm playing the P-3 most of the time and I practically never visit the Pilot Station and only seldom use the camera and then mostly in IR mode. Given that I'm happy with the graphics (i.e. the stations). What I would love to see tho are more tools to work with, like preset buoy patterns and whatnot.

Bottom Line : Should DW look better given that its a game which has been released in '95 - Yes of course. Is the current look a Show Stopper ? Nope !!

01-28-08, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneShot

Well, its possible to have great graphics and at the same time high realism ... BUT this takes a lot of effort, money and especially time. Unfortunatly the majority of developers lacks one of those ingredients and have to settle for compromises or simply less of everything. For example, while SH3/SH4 has really nice graphics and all, it cannot compete in terms of realism with DW (even with all "help" disabled) - to clarify I'm talking about stock games ... not aftermarket modding by the community.

Somewhere down the road are exceptions but those seem to be in the flightsim area ... most notably here FighterOps and DCS:Black Shark which at least according to everything thats in the public domain are both high fidelity sims and look spectacular.

Aside from that, as the history of computer games has proven ... as far as sims go ... the top notch graphic envelope pushing sims have always been flight sims first and foremost (which doesn't mean that other sims didnt look good too). In our specific case with DW we have to look at the setting of the game ... its a modern tactical ASW simulator and unlike WW2 the subs today stay over 90% of their time below the waves ... there is no need for fancy graphics ... but the things you look at most should look good which are the individual stations. Heck, I'm playing the P-3 most of the time and I practically never visit the Pilot Station and only seldom use the camera and then mostly in IR mode. Given that I'm happy with the graphics (i.e. the stations). What I would love to see tho are more tools to work with, like preset buoy patterns and whatnot.

Bottom Line : Should DW look better given that its a game which has been released in '95 - Yes of course. Is the current look a Show Stopper ? Nope !!

Ya lack of information. Black Shark developer team has paused working with Black Shark cause new military contract they r involved in. And Fighter Ops, well it will be worlds biggest miracle if they get it running and to markets. They both suffer lack of resources, big time.

And there aint no military flight sims with great graphics at the moment. Lock on, well thats not even a simulator.

tonibamestre · 01-29-08, 06:20 AM

Well,I see that this is a pretty complicated item and the best way is to develop a brand new game from the start.So here it is,we have right now Fighter Ops under development.I know its a combat flight sim,but is expected to implement an addon called Navy Ops or so.If by when this time arrive,we could discuss with XSI developers-managers (Buckshot and Pacman) on the forum in order to request a really brilliant Naval expansions(Im talking about adding fully controllable ships with its systems and weapons), able to interoperate with the air part itself, I am sure we had the most powerful and capable air-naval warfare sim ever built.

So,from here I bet to have a very close eye on this amazing sim,it can be the expected future we always have wished.

Dr.Sid · 01-29-08, 06:24 AM

Btw. subsim project which will grow into full naval sim someday is under progress.
http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...splay.php?f=87

Ghost Dog · 01-29-08, 03:48 PM

I'd love to see some enhanced graphics, espescially explosions. Im waiting for the day we can see "Crimson Tide" underwater explosions!

But what DW really needs is a playables and database overhaul. sonalysts should either **** or get off the pot on this. either produce an expansion thats digitally available, or allow the modding community to do its thing. If the mod community for DW could grow into something like fs2004/FSX, that would be awesome. I'd gladly pay for addon submarines/ships/aircraft.

someone needs to seriously get on this.

Dr.Sid · 01-29-08, 03:58 PM

Hm .. they really could say what are their next plans, because of the new contract they've got.
I think they do not plan to do game business anymore .. in that case they could allow us to mod the game completely.

01-29-08, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Btw. subsim project which will grow into full naval sim someday is under progress.
http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...splay.php?f=87

This is totally new to me. What is this exactly? :hmm:

Dr.Sid · 01-29-08, 07:09 PM

I guess I should fill up the wiki finally .. anyway:

Wiki: http://www.commanders-academy.com/co...itle=Main_Page
Forum: http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...splay.php?f=87
Obsolete forum: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/communitysubsim/
Pretty active thread here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125372
Latest downloads:http://roger.questions.cz/other/sim5.zip
http://roger.questions.cz/other/sim4.zip

Goals: something like DW first, something better later.

Btw. Imamar .. you posted in that thread. Even your post was helpfull.

01-29-08, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

I guess I should fill up the wiki finally .. anyway:

Wiki: http://www.commanders-academy.com/co...itle=Main_Page
Forum: http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...splay.php?f=87
Obsolete forum: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/communitysubsim/
Pretty active thread here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125372
Latest downloads:http://roger.questions.cz/other/sim5.zip
http://roger.questions.cz/other/sim4.zip

Goals: something like DW first, something better later.

Btw. Imamar .. you posted in that thread. Even your post was helpfull.

Heck i have tried it too. Nice piece of work. Lets hope it will be released some day.

01-25-08, 03:45 PM	#1
tonibamestre 中国水兵 Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 271 Downloads: 82 Uploads: 0	Dangerous Waters Overhaul Well guys and modders,my opinnion is that our actual DW needs an overhaul work.Talking about graphics,I would touch terrain textures making them more realistic.Correct elevations using SRTM,coast lines,harbours,ports and naval bases,all this would give an impressive aspect to the game.Also would be interesting the capability to navigate the whole globe-sea mass,not just be able to play a singular map predetermined. And finaly,a repaint to the efects,smokes,blasts,explosions and trails. The desirable would be that SCS team could remaster all that mentioned on a lets say DW Flight II series but.................time will tell. Best regards.

01-27-08, 06:10 PM	#3
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Half of what you are asking for isn't doable unless SCS either modifies the GraphicEngine themselves or opens up the code for others to improve. I'm pretty sure that neither won't happen and just to state the obvious ... yes it has been discussed over and over and over again why they should but wouldn't open the source code so lets try to not go into this discussion AGAIN (if you wanna know more about this simply browse/search within this forum). Things that can be improved to a certain extend are stuff like textures and sounds (you always have to work within the limitations of the engine tho) or modells. Work on this is already underway or has been done ... there are a couple of sound mods around as well as some graphic improvements (one of the first mods was Kegetys water texture mod - which is now included in the LwAmi Mod Package). Still in the aforementioned area there is more room for improvement. On a personal note ... would I like to see more eye-candy in DW - certainly! Do I really need it - absolutly not. Why ? The parts of the game I look at extensively are done very nice and do a good job ... the station panels, hence I'm satisfied. Furthermore instead of concentrating on (in my eyes) useless or at least rather unimportant eye-candy (remember this is an tactical ASW simulator) they should fix some issues and still/again existent bugs in the NSE or whatever part of the program is responsible. However, this has been discussed more then once as well, so I will just step down from my soap box and hit the rack. __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!

01-27-08, 06:13 PM	#4
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Yeah, "Overhaul" is probably the wrong title for this thread. Seems this is more concerned with a "facelift." __________________

01-28-08, 10:47 AM	#7
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Well, its possible to have great graphics and at the same time high realism ... BUT this takes a lot of effort, money and especially time. Unfortunatly the majority of developers lacks one of those ingredients and have to settle for compromises or simply less of everything. For example, while SH3/SH4 has really nice graphics and all, it cannot compete in terms of realism with DW (even with all "help" disabled) - to clarify I'm talking about stock games ... not aftermarket modding by the community. Somewhere down the road are exceptions but those seem to be in the flightsim area ... most notably here FighterOps and DCS:Black Shark which at least according to everything thats in the public domain are both high fidelity sims and look spectacular. Aside from that, as the history of computer games has proven ... as far as sims go ... the top notch graphic envelope pushing sims have always been flight sims first and foremost (which doesn't mean that other sims didnt look good too). In our specific case with DW we have to look at the setting of the game ... its a modern tactical ASW simulator and unlike WW2 the subs today stay over 90% of their time below the waves ... there is no need for fancy graphics ... but the things you look at most should look good which are the individual stations. Heck, I'm playing the P-3 most of the time and I practically never visit the Pilot Station and only seldom use the camera and then mostly in IR mode. Given that I'm happy with the graphics (i.e. the stations). What I would love to see tho are more tools to work with, like preset buoy patterns and whatnot. Bottom Line : Should DW look better given that its a game which has been released in '95 - Yes of course. Is the current look a Show Stopper ? Nope !! __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!

01-27-08, 11:49 AM	#2
Imamar Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Old news. I myself would love to see upgraded DW too. Atleast graphics as good as SH3 and explosions too. BUT, as it is in sim world, gameplay is the thing.Not surrounding graphics.

01-29-08, 06:20 AM	#9
tonibamestre 中国水兵 Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 271 Downloads: 82 Uploads: 0	Well,I see that this is a pretty complicated item and the best way is to develop a brand new game from the start.So here it is,we have right now Fighter Ops under development.I know its a combat flight sim,but is expected to implement an addon called Navy Ops or so.If by when this time arrive,we could discuss with XSI developers-managers (Buckshot and Pacman) on the forum in order to request a really brilliant Naval expansions(Im talking about adding fully controllable ships with its systems and weapons), able to interoperate with the air part itself, I am sure we had the most powerful and capable air-naval warfare sim ever built. So,from here I bet to have a very close eye on this amazing sim,it can be the expected future we always have wished.

01-29-08, 06:24 AM	#10
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Btw. subsim project which will grow into full naval sim someday is under progress. http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...splay.php?f=87

01-29-08, 03:48 PM	#11
Ghost Dog Planesman Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Olympus Mons, Mars Posts: 184 Downloads: 115 Uploads: 0	I'd love to see some enhanced graphics, espescially explosions. Im waiting for the day we can see "Crimson Tide" underwater explosions! But what DW really needs is a playables and database overhaul. sonalysts should either **** or get off the pot on this. either produce an expansion thats digitally available, or allow the modding community to do its thing. If the mod community for DW could grow into something like fs2004/FSX, that would be awesome. I'd gladly pay for addon submarines/ships/aircraft. someone needs to seriously get on this.

01-29-08, 03:58 PM	#12
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Hm .. they really could say what are their next plans, because of the new contract they've got. I think they do not plan to do game business anymore .. in that case they could allow us to mod the game completely.

01-29-08, 07:09 PM	#14
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I guess I should fill up the wiki finally .. anyway: Wiki: http://www.commanders-academy.com/co...itle=Main_Page Forum: http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...splay.php?f=87 Obsolete forum: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/communitysubsim/ Pretty active thread here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125372 Latest downloads:http://roger.questions.cz/other/sim5.zip http://roger.questions.cz/other/sim4.zip Goals: something like DW first, something better later. Btw. Imamar .. you posted in that thread. Even your post was helpfull.