Strategic problems in a Porpoise sub...

Oki, I´m in a Porpoise career/100% realism. At surface, I always pick up Merchants with escorting Warships at long range, moving away from me or at constant distance at medium/high speed. My procedure is to order highest surface speed to cut the distance, (I don´t know how close in meters/yards you can get before getting spotted), but It always ends the same way; the nasty destroyers soon forces me to crashdive surrounded by their long distances explosives and then depthcarghes. Well, I´m using TM and the hawkeyed INJ don´t let go at the first place. One time I went up to PD and managed to put a Bullzeye Torpedo at a destroyer. No BOOM, the torpedo went under, just as It often did in 1942. Anyway, It seems fruitless to battle the destroyers bxz. they are often more the one, but frustration can make a man go wild! (I probably shouldn´t have done It in real life). In submerged mode doing 9 knots at flankspeed there is no way I can keep up with the enemy, getting in fireposition.

My questions is, how do You deal with Merchants/Destroyers contacts as described in above? And do You battle the attacking escorts or simply pull the plug?

[M. Sarsfield]

I did an end around on a small convoy with 2 escorts the other night. When I got a large freighter in visual range (way out there almost over the horizon) I made a best guess at the angle on the bow and resulting heading - sometimes you have to dive a few times to get new sound bearings to determine this. I matched their course and traveled at flank speed to get in front of them. When I could no longer see the merchant, I cut in 90 degrees toward their projected path and submerged once I felt that I was within 2000 yards of the path.

The ships ended up changing course from a SW heading to a SE heading, but I was about due south of their position when they did the course change. I only had to make some minor course and speed changes to compensate and I lined up three fish on the large merchant. One was a dud and 2 went under her, but I was happy with the way I positioned myself and ran the calculations.

[vek73]

When you get a sound contact, figure out which direction the convoy is headed, and stay out of range, change your course and head flank speed to position yourself in an area where the convoy will pass. Once you get a visual, that you are indeed in the path, go periscope and setup in a spot to ambush. Once you get in good position, if there is an escort in the lead, go silent and dive deep before he gets your visual. On his sonar trace passes you, come back up to periscope and commence ambush, with full fore and aft salvos.

My favorite common ambush spot below ..
key: => (merchant) -> (DD's) ^ (me)

<pre>

     ->

=>      =>

=>      =>          
    
=>      =>                         ->    
             ^      (DD that passed overhead of me)
=>      =>

    ->

</pre>

[AVGWarhawk]

Get ahead and pull the plug. Get basic heading. Figure their speed at 10 kts average. You can do twice that. You should be able to see their smoke from way off and of course the DD do not see you from distance. Go to your map and draw a line of the projected path of the convoy. Set up your way points for the sub to get ahead. Once there, submerge and wait. Hanging on the surface is asking to be spotted. You have to realize that sometimes they are just going to beat you!

[M. Sarsfield]

Map tools are definitely your friend. I use the map pencil, first, to mark my initial location and their initial location on the map. This will help you draw a line (with the ruler and protractor) for their projected path.

10 kts is a good starting point, too. Over time, depending on the ship, you'll get good at closer estimates, depnding on what the sound operator tells you the speed is.

[Ducimus]

Merchants can't see very far. Escorts can see farther then merchants. Capital warships and cruisers, can see father still.

During daylight hours, if your not far enough way, the escorts will see you. Your lookouts can see farther then the escorts can. So you should be able to keep in contact by running a bit farther out.

During nightime, all AI units can see about 60% of the distance they normally could. Presenting a large profile, and runnning at high speeds are ways to get yourself detected. Always try to approach, presenting only your bow, and keep your speed down to say, 10 kts or less.

[M. Sarsfield]

Very true. If you use the extrernal camera, look at yourself from the target's point of view on a night approach. You can see the bow wake on your boat pretty far out... especially in rough seas.

[Rockin Robbins]

I would recommend that you unhook Trigger Maru for now and learn the game stock first. RSRD and ROW would be fine as they don't make the game more difficult. But TM is graduate school for sub skippers, not first grade. Don't worry, it will wait until you're ready. Duci is preparing a nice airplane depth charge party for you at periscope depth when you're expecting it least!:rotfl:

But refine your technique on DDs without fangs first, then move up. You can't learn anything by getting killed instantly.

[Ducimus]

Yeah i have to admit, if you don't know what your doing or don't have alot of sub simming experience under your belt, you can get shacked very easily in TM. ALthough i think most anyone here who's been around awhile will find it a piece of cake.

[CCIP]

Also, trying to "keep up" submerged is somewhere between insane and suicidal!

If destroyers can see you well on the surface, then they can hear you even better when you're doing 9kt underwater. I wouldn't even try that.

The rule is, once a sub is underwater, it's only slightly more mobile than the average mine. So you need to get in position on the surface. Generally the best way is just trying to predict where the convoy will be in x number of hours based on their speed and heading, and head for that spot at top speed while laying out a course that keeps you away from that convoy. Adjust as many times as needed.

I don't find it hard to keep out of sight of destroyers. I'm much more challenged by keeping off their sonar, actually. Which is why I've sharpened my surface tactics and don't dive until it's absolutely neccesary (and with experience, you usually get a good feel for when that time is).

Battling destroyers is absolutely pointless unless you're caught with no other escape. It's a lot easier to get them in SH4 (and III) than in real life, unrealistically so, but really the point is - your sub is always safer when you go deeper. You stand a much better chance of losing them in the long run. And once a convoy is alerted, it will be trying to evade you anyway. Best to retreat, reorganize and try to surprise them again later than trying to chase them while they're purposely trying to dodge you.

[EAF274 Johan]

Also, during night attacks, try to position yourself so that the enemy have the moon behind them. In real life, this makes you harder to spot (don't know if this is modelled in the game), and in the game it makes it easier for you to see them.