Hiroshima and Nagasaki

rjbudz · 01-02-08, 11:07 PM

Has anyone been to either place when the big ones went off? Are they potrayed in the game? If so, they gotta be quite dramatic. Anyone?

Screen shots?

SnowCajun · 01-02-08, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjbudz

Has anyone been to either place when the big ones went off? Are they potrayed in the game? If so, they gotta be quite dramatic. Anyone?
Screen shots?

Good question, I've thought of that myself. I wonder though if it'd be looked at as politically incorrect to depict it! People still, even 60+ years later, call the USA "war criminals" for using those weapons first, even though the other countries were trying just as hard to develope them also.

SnowCajun

Ducimus · 01-02-08, 11:16 PM

Pretty sure the answer is no. At most, you'll see a radio message about a bomb being dropped but thats about it.

rjbudz · 01-02-08, 11:25 PM

Politics aside (And it IS a political hotbed, with good reason), if anyone can confirm or deny by first hand experience please let us know.

Torplexed · 01-03-08, 02:06 AM

The game's been out for 9 months now. If there were atom bombs screenshots I think somebody would've posted 'em by now. Lots of major Japanese cities like Tokyo and Osaka were massively firebombed by B-29s prior to the twin A-bomb attacks. I don't think that's portrayed either.

tater · 01-03-08, 02:13 AM

^^^ interesting "flavor" for later in the war might be added. The reality is that US subs didn't get close enough to see the 2 A-bombs except maybe flashes over the horizon.

Firebombing though... you can attach fire/smoke effects to ANY object that has an eqp file. It would be easy to add a bunch of them to certain coastal cities that were bombed and have the units spawn at the right date/time. It might be possible to make a dat that has no 3d object, but a bunch of nodes spread FAR apart to hook smoke/fire to.

Might be interesting for some lifeguard missions.

tater

Torplexed · 01-03-08, 02:25 AM

Getting the several hundred Superfortresses and their attending fighters to co-incide with that event would be quite the awesome sight. Probably crash my system too.

CCIP · 01-03-08, 02:25 AM

Well considering Pearl Harbor isn't modeled - in fact it took a patch to even put in a few sunken battleships in the harbor to improve the feel - and subs were very much there during and after the event...

...well, you can see where I'm going with that.

In fact a lot of dramatic events aren't modeled at all in that much detail. Even with battles like Midway, the best you can expect is seeing some carriers sail by in roughly the right places.

The game isn't meant to be a tour of the Pacific war, just a sub sim in the theatre. The logic is that your place in the game is not sightseeing but sinking ships and performing special missions!

Torplexed · 01-03-08, 02:29 AM

Yeah...I remember people prior to the games release wanting to know if they'd be able to intercept the Japanese carrier fleet before the Pearl Harbor attack. Kinda defeats the purpose of a surprise attack when you know it's coming. Guess they wanted to do their own personal Final Countdown. :p

At the end of the day the game really isn't designed to recreate every dramatic event of the Pacific War. You have to make your own....or mod your own.

scrag · 01-03-08, 05:08 AM

The one thing that is not done well is the historical events - SH III a battle in which U -Boats could hav had a significant impact was the Sinking of the Bismark - particularly the departure of the CV and BB to pursue. SH IV Coral Sea, Midway, Guadacanal, Letye Gulf - not there - too bad.
Atomic Bombings aside - I tried to get into position to at least see Nagasaki but I was delayed in getting there. BTW The base at Sasebo Japan - about 90 miles away was the center for training the IJN Sub Force (there SUBSCOL) at the end of the war.

tater · 01-03-08, 10:53 AM

Battles in SH4 are pretty much impossible to replicate. The tools are simply not there in the game.

1. The AI is not capable of using all the RL tools the ships had (notably torpedos, particularly for the IJN).

2. Aircraft behavior is poor, and air operations for carriers are abstracted to the point of being completely unrealistic.

3. The AI cannot be scripted to have the proper results of a battle. So even if 1-2 were not a huge problem, you simply cannot guarantee that the right ships will sink. There is no point is having a "Battle of Midway" if the 4 IJN CVs are not disabled---first 3, then Hiryu later that day. If any other ships get sunk instead, or the CVs retire... it's not the battle of Midway.

This is the reason I abandoned working on battles between surface combatants. To me, the results are as important as seeing the ships. Putting the ships in the right area is fine, bothering with trying to make a battle is a waste of time, sadly.

tater

mookiemookie · 01-03-08, 11:35 AM

I suppose you could cheat a bit in the battles and give the IJN ships that are supposed to sink a paltry amount of HP while the American ships could be armored up to the point where theyre unsinkable.

Ah well, I'm not here to watch a surface battle unfold anyways. I'm here for the unrestricted submarine warfare.

John Channing · 01-03-08, 11:36 AM

And even if you did get the correct results the carriers would just respawn later.

But the point is if you are concerned about playing the game from a historically correct point of view then none of this matters, as you would not know when or where the battles were taking place anyway.

JCC

Mush Martin · 01-03-08, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

And even if you did get the correct results the carriers would just respawn later.

But the point is if you are concerned about playing the game from a historically correct point of view then none of this matters, as you would not know when or where the battles were taking place anyway.

JCC

Emminent Logic :rotfl:

tater · 01-03-08, 12:01 PM

Yeah, I agree. OTOH, US subs WERE sent to screen Midway, and Nautilus did, in fact, contact the Kido Butai and made an (unsuccessful, #@$$##$##! mk14s) attack on the crippled Soryu.

So it is realistic to participate in some battles. The problem in the above Midway example is that Soryu should already be crippled when found. You can script planes to fly over, but the results will be random. It is indeed possible to clone the various important ships and alter them to your ends though. Make CVs that flood VERY slowly, but lose their engines quickly. Make easily damaged flight decks that link to terrible burning effects, etc. It's a helluva lot of work though, for little player payoff, IMO.

01-02-08, 11:07 PM	#1
rjbudz Watch Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Hiroshima and Nagasaki Has anyone been to either place when the big ones went off? Are they potrayed in the game? If so, they gotta be quite dramatic. Anyone? Screen shots? __________________

01-02-08, 11:25 PM	#4
rjbudz Watch Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Politics aside (And it IS a political hotbed, with good reason), if anyone can confirm or deny by first hand experience please let us know. __________________ Last edited by rjbudz; 01-02-08 at 11:41 PM.

01-03-08, 02:06 AM	#5
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	The game's been out for 9 months now. If there were atom bombs screenshots I think somebody would've posted 'em by now. Lots of major Japanese cities like Tokyo and Osaka were massively firebombed by B-29s prior to the twin A-bomb attacks. I don't think that's portrayed either. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

01-03-08, 02:25 AM	#7
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Getting the several hundred Superfortresses and their attending fighters to co-incide with that event would be quite the awesome sight. Probably crash my system too. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

01-03-08, 02:25 AM	#8
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Well considering Pearl Harbor isn't modeled - in fact it took a patch to even put in a few sunken battleships in the harbor to improve the feel - and subs were very much there during and after the event... ...well, you can see where I'm going with that. In fact a lot of dramatic events aren't modeled at all in that much detail. Even with battles like Midway, the best you can expect is seeing some carriers sail by in roughly the right places. The game isn't meant to be a tour of the Pacific war, just a sub sim in the theatre. The logic is that your place in the game is not sightseeing but sinking ships and performing special missions! __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

01-02-08, 11:16 PM	#3
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Pretty sure the answer is no. At most, you'll see a radio message about a bomb being dropped but thats about it.

01-03-08, 02:13 AM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	^^^ interesting "flavor" for later in the war might be added. The reality is that US subs didn't get close enough to see the 2 A-bombs except maybe flashes over the horizon. Firebombing though... you can attach fire/smoke effects to ANY object that has an eqp file. It would be easy to add a bunch of them to certain coastal cities that were bombed and have the units spawn at the right date/time. It might be possible to make a dat that has no 3d object, but a bunch of nodes spread FAR apart to hook smoke/fire to. Might be interesting for some lifeguard missions. tater

01-03-08, 02:29 AM	#9
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Yeah...I remember people prior to the games release wanting to know if they'd be able to intercept the Japanese carrier fleet before the Pearl Harbor attack. Kinda defeats the purpose of a surprise attack when you know it's coming. Guess they wanted to do their own personal Final Countdown. :p At the end of the day the game really isn't designed to recreate every dramatic event of the Pacific War. You have to make your own....or mod your own. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

01-03-08, 05:08 AM	#10
scrag Medic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pearl Harbor, Hawaii Posts: 161 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	SH III and SH IV Lacks in that regard. The one thing that is not done well is the historical events - SH III a battle in which U -Boats could hav had a significant impact was the Sinking of the Bismark - particularly the departure of the CV and BB to pursue. SH IV Coral Sea, Midway, Guadacanal, Letye Gulf - not there - too bad. Atomic Bombings aside - I tried to get into position to at least see Nagasaki but I was delayed in getting there. BTW The base at Sasebo Japan - about 90 miles away was the center for training the IJN Sub Force (there SUBSCOL) at the end of the war. __________________

01-03-08, 10:53 AM	#11
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Battles in SH4 are pretty much impossible to replicate. The tools are simply not there in the game. 1. The AI is not capable of using all the RL tools the ships had (notably torpedos, particularly for the IJN). 2. Aircraft behavior is poor, and air operations for carriers are abstracted to the point of being completely unrealistic. 3. The AI cannot be scripted to have the proper results of a battle. So even if 1-2 were not a huge problem, you simply cannot guarantee that the right ships will sink. There is no point is having a "Battle of Midway" if the 4 IJN CVs are not disabled---first 3, then Hiryu later that day. If any other ships get sunk instead, or the CVs retire... it's not the battle of Midway. This is the reason I abandoned working on battles between surface combatants. To me, the results are as important as seeing the ships. Putting the ships in the right area is fine, bothering with trying to make a battle is a waste of time, sadly. tater

01-03-08, 11:35 AM	#12
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	I suppose you could cheat a bit in the battles and give the IJN ships that are supposed to sink a paltry amount of HP while the American ships could be armored up to the point where theyre unsinkable. Ah well, I'm not here to watch a surface battle unfold anyways. I'm here for the unrestricted submarine warfare. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

01-03-08, 11:36 AM	#13
John Channing Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 1998 Posts: 1,846 Downloads: 163 Uploads: 5	And even if you did get the correct results the carriers would just respawn later. But the point is if you are concerned about playing the game from a historically correct point of view then none of this matters, as you would not know when or where the battles were taking place anyway. JCC

01-03-08, 12:01 PM	#15
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yeah, I agree. OTOH, US subs WERE sent to screen Midway, and Nautilus did, in fact, contact the Kido Butai and made an (unsuccessful, #@$$##$##! mk14s) attack on the crippled Soryu. So it is realistic to participate in some battles. The problem in the above Midway example is that Soryu should already be crippled when found. You can script planes to fly over, but the results will be random. It is indeed possible to clone the various important ships and alter them to your ends though. Make CVs that flood VERY slowly, but lose their engines quickly. Make easily damaged flight decks that link to terrible burning effects, etc. It's a helluva lot of work though, for little player payoff, IMO.