Death of the GM Corvette?

[SUBMAN1]

GM: Emission law may hamper muscle cars

Detroit performance cars endangered by new, stricter regulations



Detroit performance cars endangered by new, stricter regulations
The 2009 Corvette ZR1 is the fastest, most powerful automobile ever produced by General Motors. But it may be the last in a long tradition of muscle cars, says the Corvette's chief engineer, Tadge Juechter.

DETROIT - When General Motors Corp. pulls the cover off a new supercharged version of the Corvette at the Detroit auto show next month, it will unveil a performance car designed to rival or better even the fastest, most expensive exotic cars from Europe.

But the Corvette's chief engineer says the 2009 Corvette ZR1 may be the last in a long tradition of Detroit performance cars, endangered by stronger federal fuel economy regulations and limits on carbon dioxide emissions.

"High-performance vehicles such as this may actually be legislated out of existence," Tadge Juechter said at a recent showing of the ZR1, which is designed to have around 620 horsepower.

President Bush on Wednesday signed into law legislation that will bring more fuel-efficient vehicles into auto showrooms and require wider use of ethanol, calling it "a major step" toward energy independence and easing global warming.

The legislation requires automakers to increase fuel efficiency by 40 percent to an industry average 35 miles per gallon by 2020.

But Juechter said to sell one of the Chevrolet supercars, GM would need to offset that with cars that get 45 mpg.

"It could really be an endangered species," he said.

Aaron Bragman, an auto analyst with the consulting firm Global Insight, said predicting the death of the muscle car might be premature.

The Corvette, he said, is fuel efficient when compared with its competitors. Although fuel economy figures weren't released for the ZR1, the current 505-horsepower Corvette ZO6 gets an estimated 15 mpg in the city and 24 on the highway, according to GM.

The ZR1, he said, gets around the same mileage as a Chevrolet pickup truck, and GM won't be getting out of the pickup business because of gas mileage standards.

"I think it's a little over-dramatization," Bragman said. "GM wants to sell big, high-performance, fun cars. And typically that's what Americans want to buy."

Performance cars of the future may be powered by smaller engines or electric motors, he said, but they won't die.

The ZR1 will have a top speed of more than 200 mph, driven by an all-new supercharged 6.2-liter V-8 engine. It has 19-inch front and 20-inch rear wheels and a suspension tuned to provide extraordinary cornering grip, GM said.

The car has a carbon-fiber hood, fenders and roof for weight savings, and its huge carbon-ceramic brake rotors give it great stopping power, the company said.

The ZR1 will cost around $100,000 and probably will go on sale next summer.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22340556/

[Reaves]

There will always be people who will pay for such a car so I doubt they will ever become extinct. They might have a hard time once we stop using petrol (fusion maybe? ) but the market will always be there so the money will be made.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Reaves

There will always be people who will pay for such a car so I doubt they will ever become extinct. They might have a hard time once we stop using petrol (fusion maybe? ) but the market will always be there so the money will be made.

Ahhh you mean beer as in Back to the Future :p

[Reaves]

Originally Posted by joea

Ahhh you mean beer as in Back to the Future :p

There is no reason to squander our greatest resource for transportation!

:rotfl:

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Reaves

There is no reason to squander our greatest resource for transportation!

:rotfl:

Unless of course they need o use some so that the can 'transport' that greatest resource to a local place for my purchase! Then, and only then, I can authorize such a use!

-S

[JSLTIGER]

When someone can give me a legitimate reason as to why they need 620 horsepower, then I'll be sad. Until then, I don't understand what people have against 4 cylinder engines. I drive a 4 banger powered Corolla right now, and its got more than enough power to get me around town. My parents drive an Accord with a 4 cylinder engine, and it too has more than enough power. Barring towing, no one really needs to have V6s or V8s.

[SUBMAN1]

Obviously you need to be introduced to an old concept. Here in the US, we call that comcept - 'fun'. I've have various fast cars, and there is an endorphine that is created by such a machine. You really don't get it any other place. Give me a deserted old twisty road in the mountains with a fast car, and no people around any day!

Without experiencing it yourself, there is no way to explain it to you. Try it sometime. Only then will you understand.

-S

[CCIP]

Yes, but I also think the "fun" should be responsible. If it's reliant on things which make the world a less sustainable place, well, perhaps it's just not a good thing.

Not that I think everything "fun" should be banned, but emissions regulations are there for a reason.

[Reaves]

Originally Posted by JSLTIGER

When someone can give me a legitimate reason as to why they need 620 horsepower, then I'll be sad. Until then, I don't understand what people have against 4 cylinder engines. I drive a 4 banger powered Corolla right now, and its got more than enough power to get me around town. My parents drive an Accord with a 4 cylinder engine, and it too has more than enough power. Barring towing, no one really needs to have V6s or V8s.

While I understand what you're saying, I drive a Toyota Vienta V6 because I need a large sedan and I tow a trailer fairly regulary. I could not have a 4 cylinder unless they improve them.

Trademen need Utes (pickups) for similar reasons, you just can't use a small car for many reasons.

The problem is you have all these people driving big 4x4's to drive around the city. THAT is a problem.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Yes, but I also think the "fun" should be responsible. If it's reliant on things which make the world a less sustainable place, well, perhaps it's just not a good thing.

Not that I think everything "fun" should be banned, but emissions regulations are there for a reason.

Little do people realize that a Corvette is fuel efficient and cheaper to operate than any SUV in the mid sized class or bigger. You probably live in Europe where cars are small, so imagine my world where SUV's and Mini-Vans make up 50% of the cars on the road. Add trucks in there, and you probably make up 2/3 rds. It would be an improvement if they all drive Corvettes and get 25+ MPG.

-S

[Chock]

I've had enough cars with big engines in the past, motorbikes too, but even I think that's just a stupid amount of power for something they are trying to sell to road users.

Personally, I'll be more impressed when the US motor industry can produce a car that is actually capable of going around a corner without wallowing all over the place like a soggy sponge:rotfl:

And yes I've driven Yank cars too, including a Dodge Viper, a '67 Mustang and the posh version of the old Trans Am with the engine-turned gold dashboard that looked like a tart's handbag, and they were all awful as far as handling goes (good fun mind, I admit that). But I imagine that ZR1 is probably no better in respect to handling.

Chock

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Chock

I've had enough cars with big engines in the past, motorbikes too, but even I think that's just a stupid amount of power for something they are trying to sell to road users.

Personally, I'll be more impressed when the US motor industry can produce a car that is actually capable of going around a corner without wallowing all over the place like a soggy sponge:rotfl:

And yes I've driven Yank cars too, including a Dodge Viper, a '67 Mustang and the posh version of the old Trans Am with the engine-turned gold dashboard that looked like a tart's handbag, and they were all awful as far as handling goes. I imagine that ZR1 is probably no better in respect to handling.

Chock

Incorrect. The Yank car will kick pretty much anything from Europe short of $300K. This includes corners, and everything else on a track. Start looking to pick yourself up a Zonda. You're gonna need one to compete with this bad boy!

And if you must guess, the current ZR1 is smoking pretty much anything short of $200 - $250K out of Europe. This includes the Ferraris, Maseratis, all of it, and for less than a fraction of the price.

Pick up some Motor Trends and see how bad Europe is failing against this American beast. Its pretty bad.

By the way, sorry you had to drive a Viper. When i think of that thing, I think an Italian hairy chested guy cruising for the bottom of the barrel women (Like that politically correct way to say that? i just made it up! ) And yes, the current ZR1 is much much faster and nimble than the original Viper, and so Viper hit back with a 520 HP version, and the ZR1 still beats it.

-S

PS. Read about J Leno who took a stock slow Corvette into Germany on the Autobahn. Not much those guys can do about it when hit the accelerator and left those $160K BMW's back in the dust. And that was the crappy 380 HP version. Apparently those Beemers can't hit 170+. If he had the current 505 HP Corvette, he could approach 200 MPH (320 km/h), but I guess he doesn't need it.

PPS. The current ZR1 goes for a paultry $70K or so too.

[Zachstar]

There are lots of bits of technology that can come together to give these cars MASSIVE amounts of power and acceleration. My favorites being the Ultracapasitor that can last longer than Lithium-Ion and is able to deliver most of its potential at any given time. And of course the new alloys being developed that can handle such massive stress.

If you got the cash you will not be without for long

[Chock]

Not according to all these tests:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/show/powerlaps.shtml

Seems that Corvette's going to have to find another five-plus seconds over the one on the list to get up there.

Chock

[Zachstar]

Oh and give me a Geo Storm over any of these cars and I will be quite happy.

When I get my life together I plan to purcase a broken down one and turn it into a digital high range fun machine (500 miles per charge) with awesome amouts of safety features!