Downgrading X-mas (and much more to come!) ?

Skybird · 11-01-07, 03:59 AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...e_id=1770&ct=5

More madness from the masters of European lunacy. Sorry Steed for beating you to it

Quote:

Sayeeda Warsi, the Conservative spokesman on community cohesion, said: "Their comments betray a breathtaking misunderstanding of what it is to be British. These proposals could actually damage cohesion."

She added: "You don't build community cohesion by throwing out our history and denying the fundamental contribution Christianity has played and does play to our nation.
"As a British Muslim I can see that - so why others can't just staggers me."
And she attacked ceremonies to mark the registration of a baby. "The thought of Gordon Brown sharing responsibility with me for bringing up my children sends a shiver down my spine. I thought we got rid of communism?"

If even a Muslim speaker says so - what is it that makes it so difficult for endlessly wellmeaning Labour to see it, too?

Exitus already must have taken place long time ago, I think. Which actually means you are arguing with zombies.

Torplexed · 11-01-07, 06:46 AM

Yup. Just trade away a nation's soul so we can all feel more harminous and a smug few can break their arms patting themselves on the back.

Humbug. Maybe three Dickensian spirits will be visiting this Labour think tank on Christmas eve.

Chock · 11-01-07, 09:11 AM

Well, it just goes to show how stupid these people are if they think they can make a pronouncement and that will make decades of tradition just magically disappear. Next minute they'll be sitting on the beach commanding the tide to turn back.

Chock

Jimbuna · 11-01-07, 09:42 AM

Just wait till Santa hears of this....then they're in for it!!

Tchocky · 11-01-07, 11:04 AM

I see a lot of sense in that (the report in general, not the Christmas part). you can't run a country by pretending that it's still the 1950's.
As regards Christmas, the government has a wonderfully small effect on private religious practises. And Christmas can hardly be called a religious festival anymore.

AntEater · 11-01-07, 11:13 AM

First problem: who are these Jokers? Thats what you get if you outsource political deliberation.
Democracy used to be about a people electing people who have ideas for the future of the country.
Now it is about electing people who pay other people to have ideas.
On the other hand, it means it simply is a report, nothing binding.

On the other hand one must admit they're right in some aspects.
Britain is as much the Empire as Germany is the Reich, people only go to Church on weddings or funerals and most kids in England and Germany know more about SpongeBob than about Shakespeare or Goethe.
It is a fact, that most of western europe has become a post-everything consumer society. Wether you like it or not, that's the way it is.
Their basic premise is right, only the conclusion is wrong.
Multiculturalism works if all of those multiple cultures share the same basic beliefs.
All of them must regard religion mainly as a matter of heritage, must have put aside
nationalist differences and basically regard the other as equal. Relationships and marriages into another nation must not pose a problem for every side for this to work.
Might sound radical, but I suppose integrating England and Germany (or any western european country) into one nation would be doable under those premises. Integrating the native population of either England or Germany with their mainly muslim immigrant population is not.
Most Immigrant populations simply have not (yet?) arrived in the post-everything society. Religion is a part of their way of life as is shaving or sleeping. They do hate other nations with the same fervor our own ancestors hated each other 1914. Many have real problems regarding relationships with outsiders, let alone marriages and families, at least regarding women.

For that reason, as the muslim conservative said, the very idea of abolishing Christmas or even putting other religious festivities on an equal level is seen as a sign of weakness and betrayal. They hold dear to their ancient customs, so they regard holding dear such things as the honourable thing to do for a society.
If a society comes and lays down its most ancient traditions for another culture, it is not seen as courtesy, but as admitting inferiority.
If Europe never had started the immigrant business, multiculturalism might have worked.

I always think it is funny when americans complain over their Latino problem.
I'd prefer a barrio over a kashbah any time

PapaG39 · 11-01-07, 11:33 AM

Each decade finds more and more Americans complaining about everything and doing more of nothing about anything.
I believe it is a direction of these end times.

STEED · 11-01-07, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Christmas should be 'downgraded' to help race relations says Labour think tank

BURN IN HELL
YOU VILE PIGS

I am sick of this spineless Government bending over and giving in all the time no wonder the BNP is gaining ground. This will continual up to when the race war breaks out in this country and that is there plan. Watch more of freedom and democracy go bye bye.

On another point they said was WW2 is slipping from our minds which indicates they want to scrap poppy appeal and remembrance day.

Chock · 11-01-07, 01:29 PM

A lot of it stems from the 'social worker' types, people I have to deal with when I produce artwork for them on occasion. They are so keen to help people integrate into their new chosen home country, that they get the problem ass-about-face in bending over backwards with concessions.

In the same way that if I moved to Iran, I'd not expect everyone to start putting up signs in English for my benefit, it would be up to me to learn to fit in, and when I did, any cultural baggage I have would then naturally be able to become part of the fabric of that country. Which is why I have no sympathy for ex-patriot Brits in Spain who have been there 20 years and still try to build a little piece of England over there, having made no effort to learn the language. Any Spaniards who would help them to do that would just be stupid, and any Brits who want to start rearranging the cultural fabric of Britain to suit immigrants would be similarly foolish. However, in a PC world, to state such views invites labels of racism rather than common sense.

Chalk another one up to PC lunacy.

Chock

Skybird · 11-03-07, 12:06 PM

I just stopped yelling. Again, Britain is far ahead of the rest.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Jimbuna · 11-03-07, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I just stopped yelling. Again, Britain is far ahead of the rest.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Sadly......I gotta agree with you on this one

TteFAboB · 11-03-07, 01:13 PM

Britain? The desire to expunge Christmass and the extortion of public employees are news itens from Venezuela.

It must be Global Warming. Hopefully soon enough the Brits will be able to start growing Bananas.

FIREWALL · 11-03-07, 01:22 PM

Unless I'm missing something. This is another case of the

INMATES RUNNING THE MADHOUSE

AntEater · 11-03-07, 01:42 PM

Strange, Germany for once seems to have lost the first place in the "PCest nation" ranking.
Multiculturalism is pretty much out of fashion here in the political debate, "integration" being the new buzzword.
Even the greenest of the green have (officially) abandoned the idea of multiculturalism.
hole.
I've witnessed similar excesses while in School in the 1980s but nowadays it has cooled down somewhat. Seems Britain still has to reach her fever pitch.

Skybird · 11-03-07, 01:55 PM

I fail to agree, antEater. Multiculturalism and Integration are lingual ammunitions that always seem to be used in pairs.

The site that pointed me on that Daily News article had an even more charming example of how less Westerners know about islam, they quoted the Protestant female bishop Käsman (who just got divorced from her husband

) with her having said something like she would like to ask Islam if maybe it couldn't reform itself, like the Christian church did, such a reformated Ilam would also be a nice opportunity for people to redirect their attention to the reformed christian chuch of the Protestants as well.

"Hä...?" That lady surely has gone totally nuts. Wohl zu tief in the Messwein geschaut, werte Bischöfin!?

11-01-07, 06:46 AM	#2
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Yup. Just trade away a nation's soul so we can all feel more harminous and a smug few can break their arms patting themselves on the back. Humbug. Maybe three Dickensian spirits will be visiting this Labour think tank on Christmas eve. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

11-01-07, 09:11 AM	#3
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well, it just goes to show how stupid these people are if they think they can make a pronouncement and that will make decades of tradition just magically disappear. Next minute they'll be sitting on the beach commanding the tide to turn back. Chock __________________

11-01-07, 09:42 AM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,525 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Just wait till Santa hears of this....then they're in for it!! __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-01-07, 11:04 AM	#5
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I see a lot of sense in that (the report in general, not the Christmas part). you can't run a country by pretending that it's still the 1950's. As regards Christmas, the government has a wonderfully small effect on private religious practises. And Christmas can hardly be called a religious festival anymore. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

11-01-07, 11:13 AM	#6
AntEater Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 936 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	First problem: who are these Jokers? Thats what you get if you outsource political deliberation. Democracy used to be about a people electing people who have ideas for the future of the country. Now it is about electing people who pay other people to have ideas. On the other hand, it means it simply is a report, nothing binding. On the other hand one must admit they're right in some aspects. Britain is as much the Empire as Germany is the Reich, people only go to Church on weddings or funerals and most kids in England and Germany know more about SpongeBob than about Shakespeare or Goethe. It is a fact, that most of western europe has become a post-everything consumer society. Wether you like it or not, that's the way it is. Their basic premise is right, only the conclusion is wrong. Multiculturalism works if all of those multiple cultures share the same basic beliefs. All of them must regard religion mainly as a matter of heritage, must have put aside nationalist differences and basically regard the other as equal. Relationships and marriages into another nation must not pose a problem for every side for this to work. Might sound radical, but I suppose integrating England and Germany (or any western european country) into one nation would be doable under those premises. Integrating the native population of either England or Germany with their mainly muslim immigrant population is not. Most Immigrant populations simply have not (yet?) arrived in the post-everything society. Religion is a part of their way of life as is shaving or sleeping. They do hate other nations with the same fervor our own ancestors hated each other 1914. Many have real problems regarding relationships with outsiders, let alone marriages and families, at least regarding women. For that reason, as the muslim conservative said, the very idea of abolishing Christmas or even putting other religious festivities on an equal level is seen as a sign of weakness and betrayal. They hold dear to their ancient customs, so they regard holding dear such things as the honourable thing to do for a society. If a society comes and lays down its most ancient traditions for another culture, it is not seen as courtesy, but as admitting inferiority. If Europe never had started the immigrant business, multiculturalism might have worked. I always think it is funny when americans complain over their Latino problem. I'd prefer a barrio over a kashbah any time __________________

11-01-07, 11:33 AM	#7
PapaG39 Frogman Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 297 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Each decade finds more and more Americans complaining about everything and doing more of nothing about anything. I believe it is a direction of these end times.

11-01-07, 01:29 PM	#9
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	A lot of it stems from the 'social worker' types, people I have to deal with when I produce artwork for them on occasion. They are so keen to help people integrate into their new chosen home country, that they get the problem ass-about-face in bending over backwards with concessions. In the same way that if I moved to Iran, I'd not expect everyone to start putting up signs in English for my benefit, it would be up to me to learn to fit in, and when I did, any cultural baggage I have would then naturally be able to become part of the fabric of that country. Which is why I have no sympathy for ex-patriot Brits in Spain who have been there 20 years and still try to build a little piece of England over there, having made no effort to learn the language. Any Spaniards who would help them to do that would just be stupid, and any Brits who want to start rearranging the cultural fabric of Britain to suit immigrants would be similarly foolish. However, in a PC world, to state such views invites labels of racism rather than common sense. Chalk another one up to PC lunacy. Chock __________________

11-03-07, 12:06 PM	#10
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,615 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I just stopped yelling. Again, Britain is far ahead of the rest. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770 __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-03-07, 01:13 PM	#12
TteFAboB Admiral Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,247 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Britain? The desire to expunge Christmass and the extortion of public employees are news itens from Venezuela. It must be Global Warming. Hopefully soon enough the Brits will be able to start growing Bananas. __________________ "Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." ("All that is exaggerated is insignificant.") - Talleyrand

11-03-07, 01:22 PM	#13
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Unless I'm missing something. This is another case of the INMATES RUNNING THE MADHOUSE __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

11-03-07, 01:42 PM	#14
AntEater Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 936 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Strange, Germany for once seems to have lost the first place in the "PCest nation" ranking. Multiculturalism is pretty much out of fashion here in the political debate, "integration" being the new buzzword. Even the greenest of the green have (officially) abandoned the idea of multiculturalism. hole. I've witnessed similar excesses while in School in the 1980s but nowadays it has cooled down somewhat. Seems Britain still has to reach her fever pitch. __________________

11-03-07, 01:55 PM	#15
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,615 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I fail to agree, antEater. Multiculturalism and Integration are lingual ammunitions that always seem to be used in pairs. The site that pointed me on that Daily News article had an even more charming example of how less Westerners know about islam, they quoted the Protestant female bishop Käsman (who just got divorced from her husband ) with her having said something like she would like to ask Islam if maybe it couldn't reform itself, like the Christian church did, such a reformated Ilam would also be a nice opportunity for people to redirect their attention to the reformed christian chuch of the Protestants as well. "Hä...?" That lady surely has gone totally nuts. Wohl zu tief in the Messwein geschaut, werte Bischöfin!? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.