GWX is turning me off to SHIII

WilhelmSchulz. · 10-07-07, 01:06 PM

GWX is great dont get me wrong. But there is one aspect that the devs added that is TOTALY un realistic.

Here is a senario.

Time: around 24:00
Sea conditions: Modaret chop
Pitch black. New Moon

Convoy is spoted at about 5-6,000 meters. I barly am able to turn to track the convoy and match speed before shells are falling around me! The culprit is a Flower about 6,000 meters away! I can barely see him!

Now dose that sound realistic? No and its just as bad in day light. I cant have a visual on the convoy or Ill get dected. In 1939 I have to play as if it was 1945.

And the fact that I cant realy wage a convoy battle has realy turned me off to SHIII.

Dose anyone have a mod/file that reduces the visal range of the escorts/ships?

bigboywooly · 10-07-07, 01:53 PM

You can always reload stock

andylegate · 10-07-07, 02:02 PM

He does have a point.

Sorry, but as a Fire Controlman in the real navy, I'm here to tell you that you'd have a hell of a time seeing a type II or VII sub from 6 km away, at night, no moon, with your eyes or normal binoculars.

Yes, you might pick the sub up on sonar, but that will give you a bearing only. You might get a LITTLE bit of phospherous glow from the sea water lapping at the hull of the sub. But you will have darn little information on range, and any destroyer captain would be INSANE to open fire up on something that he's not sure about!

Radar did change a lot of that, but, as he indicated it's 1939.

I've actually had them open up on me from that distance, under the same conditions, with my engines at all stop, and after my many, many years of experience of actually dealing with weapons systems in the US Navy, my first thought was: "No effing way!"
Change it to daytime, with a sea state of 0, and some very alert watch standers on the ship, and I'll give it to you.
But at night, like that with choppy seas? 3 miles away? with a low profile like that?
Not unless one of my watchstanders on the tower lit up a cigarette, and then I'd have him shot on the spot!

Sorry guys, but this is one area that is unrealistic. And you don't have to take my word for it. My father spent 30 years in the navy, and when I showed him, he said "Bull ****! Ain't no way!"

i_b_spectre · 10-07-07, 02:22 PM

I'm new to SH3/GWX and don't have a great deal of experience, having just completed only my third war patrol in 1939. However, my experience so far is considerably different than WilhelmShutlz's. I've enabled most all the mods that came with GWX (excluding the French fix) and am running SH3 Commander. The 16k visibility mod seems to work well for me in that my watch crew has been able spot ships before they get close enough to attack me. were they armed. I've got SH3 Commander setup to allow x1024 time compression (TC) max, which drops to x8 whenever a potential threat is detected. WilhelmShultz didn't indicate if he's using SH3 Commander, but I strongly recommend it. It can make all the difference in the world in survival and success versus the alternative, particularly if you're using TC.

I had an instance last evening where I couldn't get a visual on a blacked-out transport, but my crew had detected him...and he had detected me, judging from the blinding spotlight illuminating my boat. Of course that made the deck gun crew have to wear sunglasses at night

but there was no doubt in which direction they needed to aim and fire. Result: first of four kills on patrol #3. So, visibility and detection in GWX seems to work both ways, but I haven't found it to be inequitably so.

Jimbuna · 10-07-07, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

You can always reload stock

I think that might be exactly what he is contemplating :hmm:

Quote:

Have you tried the single mission, 'Happy Times' ? That one gives you time to work out your plan of attack etc.

There are a few like that

bigboywooly · 10-07-07, 04:27 PM

It all depends how you play
There are plenty of tales on here of convoy attacks surfaced in 40 and before
Plenty of ppl make it to 43
Not many beyond which is historical

Remember this about the happy times
In Sept 39 Germany had 57 uboats capable of going to sea
By the end of the year 9 of them were sunk

Roughly 1 in 6 - in 3 months

Wasnt so happy for those 9 crews was it ?

No one claims GWX to be Uber historical
We try to be accurate BUT some things are limited by the game engine
Its not real life but a game

How many of you would still be playing if you had to carry out a 2 month patrol and didnt see a ship
Let alone sink one

Tis a trade off

GWX is just one mod
Dont like it then uninstall and play another or create your own

Tis simple really
No one mod can please everyone or suit how ppl want to play

Meh

joea · 10-07-07, 04:36 PM

What was the weather like? Visibility moderate? Unlimited? how fast were you going? Were you pointing towards the convoy or parallel? You know you gotta approach at a slow speed, preferably decks awash...with the bow towards the enemy if possible.

I never have a problem approaching early war convoys...just beware of experienced crews.

WilhelmSchulz. · 10-07-07, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joea

What was the weather like? Visibility moderate? Unlimited? how fast were you going? Were you pointing towards the convoy or parallel? You know you gotta approach at a slow speed, preferably decks awash...with the bow towards the enemy if possible.

I never have a problem approaching early war convoys...just beware of experienced crews.

Med fog. parrel @ 8 kts

But what Im trying to get across here is that by the time I have spotted the convoy the escorts have allready found me and turned to engage.

WilhelmSchulz. · 10-07-07, 04:31 PM

I see that some of you think that it was only onec. I would like to point out that this happens constantly. I just picked the most outstanding one.

I have been a GW player for a long time and would hate to leave them but its this one aspect is realy turning me off.

joea · 10-07-07, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilhelmSchulz.

I see that some of you think that it was only onec. I would like to point out that this happens constantly. I just picked the most outstanding one.

I have been a GW player for a long time and would hate to leave them but its this one aspect is realy turning me off.

Check my post above.

Kpt. Lehmann · 10-07-07, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

You can always reload stock

Agreed.

Everybody is a bloody expert.

"Too much of this.... too much of that.... my porridge is cold."

Frag the critics.

JScones · 10-07-07, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

You can always reload stock

Agreed.

Everybody is a bloody expert.

"Too much of this.... too much of that.... my porridge is cold."

Frag the critics.

andylegate puts forward a rational comment based on more real life experience than anyone in the GWX team has, and you dismiss him (and indeed anyone with a different POV to yours) with this condescending drivel?

You really aren't doing yourself any good with your snippy outbursts lately...

d@rk51d3 · 10-07-07, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

You can always reload stock

Agreed.

Everybody is a bloody expert.

"Too much of this.... too much of that.... my porridge is cold."

Frag the critics.

andylegate puts forward a rational comment based on more real life experience than anyone in the GWX team has, and you dismiss him (and indeed anyone with a different POV to yours) with this condescending drivel?

You really aren't doing yourself any good with your snippy outbursts lately...

Cold porridge will do that to a man. He'll be great again come lunchtime.

bigboywooly · 10-08-07, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

You can always reload stock

Agreed.

Everybody is a bloody expert.

"Too much of this.... too much of that.... my porridge is cold."

Frag the critics.

andylegate puts forward a rational comment based on more real life experience than anyone in the GWX team has, and you dismiss him (and indeed anyone with a different POV to yours) with this condescending drivel?

You really aren't doing yourself any good with your snippy outbursts lately...

Too many late nights Jaesen ?
My post was to WS not andylegate and by quoting I guess so was the Kpts

andylegate · 10-08-07, 10:48 AM

@Pablo

Quote:

Quote:
The objection that I had is the same DD's spoting me from over 6km away, at night, in choppy seas, with no moon and I'm sitting DIW (Dead In the Water). I can't see them at all, until their guns light up!

Then I can see them just fine as I start pounding on the "C" key to do a crash dive! Wondering if one of my watchstanders had lit up a cigarette (you CAN see that at night for miles and miles, I've seen it myself, freaky!).

In what month and year did this happen, and do you know what kind of destroyers were involved?

Mmmmmm....let's see. Trying to rattle my rusty, salty brain here.......
Lets see... December 1939 for the night and again around Feb 1940

I seem to remember that the ones that open fire on me at night from extreme range were: Flower Corvette's and I believe Blackswans.

The ones that seem to suddenly leave the convoy and come at me while I'm submerged always seemed to be the C&D class. This seems to be random any time from 1939 until after 1940. Supporting what you're saying.
Then after 1940, starting in 1941, theire are always more escorts and they spot you easy, but of course I'd expect this during this time and later.

I have noticed one thing. The V&W guys act dumb. Rather for me, everyone that I can remember coming across acted like they had NO idea what they were doing. I guess the random thing for them never worked! I always feel sorry for a V&W when I see it, as I seem to take it out with easy. Then again, with that attitude, watch the next one I run across sink me dead!

V&W Capt.: "Right boys. There's the bugger now. Let's get revenge shall we?"

10-07-07, 01:06 PM	#1
WilhelmSchulz. The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Virgina Beach Posts: 1,301 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	GWX is turning me off to SHIII GWX is great dont get me wrong. But there is one aspect that the devs added that is TOTALY un realistic. Here is a senario. Time: around 24:00 Sea conditions: Modaret chop Pitch black. New Moon Convoy is spoted at about 5-6,000 meters. I barly am able to turn to track the convoy and match speed before shells are falling around me! The culprit is a Flower about 6,000 meters away! I can barely see him! Now dose that sound realistic? No and its just as bad in day light. I cant have a visual on the convoy or Ill get dected. In 1939 I have to play as if it was 1945. And the fact that I cant realy wage a convoy battle has realy turned me off to SHIII. Dose anyone have a mod/file that reduces the visal range of the escorts/ships? __________________ "Some ships are designed to sink… others require our assistance."

10-07-07, 01:53 PM	#2
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	You can always reload stock __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

10-07-07, 02:22 PM	#4
i_b_spectre Engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 205 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	New to GWX I'm new to SH3/GWX and don't have a great deal of experience, having just completed only my third war patrol in 1939. However, my experience so far is considerably different than WilhelmShutlz's. I've enabled most all the mods that came with GWX (excluding the French fix) and am running SH3 Commander. The 16k visibility mod seems to work well for me in that my watch crew has been able spot ships before they get close enough to attack me. were they armed. I've got SH3 Commander setup to allow x1024 time compression (TC) max, which drops to x8 whenever a potential threat is detected. WilhelmShultz didn't indicate if he's using SH3 Commander, but I strongly recommend it. It can make all the difference in the world in survival and success versus the alternative, particularly if you're using TC. I had an instance last evening where I couldn't get a visual on a blacked-out transport, but my crew had detected him...and he had detected me, judging from the blinding spotlight illuminating my boat. Of course that made the deck gun crew have to wear sunglasses at night but there was no doubt in which direction they needed to aim and fire. Result: first of four kills on patrol #3. So, visibility and detection in GWX seems to work both ways, but I haven't found it to be inequitably so. __________________ Spectre

10-07-07, 04:27 PM	#6
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	It all depends how you play There are plenty of tales on here of convoy attacks surfaced in 40 and before Plenty of ppl make it to 43 Not many beyond which is historical Remember this about the happy times In Sept 39 Germany had 57 uboats capable of going to sea By the end of the year 9 of them were sunk Roughly 1 in 6 - in 3 months Wasnt so happy for those 9 crews was it ? No one claims GWX to be Uber historical We try to be accurate BUT some things are limited by the game engine Its not real life but a game How many of you would still be playing if you had to carry out a 2 month patrol and didnt see a ship Let alone sink one Tis a trade off GWX is just one mod Dont like it then uninstall and play another or create your own Tis simple really No one mod can please everyone or suit how ppl want to play Meh __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

10-07-07, 04:31 PM	#9
WilhelmSchulz. The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Virgina Beach Posts: 1,301 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	I see that some of you think that it was only onec. I would like to point out that this happens constantly. I just picked the most outstanding one. I have been a GW player for a long time and would hate to leave them but its this one aspect is realy turning me off. __________________ "Some ships are designed to sink… others require our assistance."

10-07-07, 02:02 PM	#3
andylegate Medic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SC, USA Posts: 168 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	He does have a point. Sorry, but as a Fire Controlman in the real navy, I'm here to tell you that you'd have a hell of a time seeing a type II or VII sub from 6 km away, at night, no moon, with your eyes or normal binoculars. Yes, you might pick the sub up on sonar, but that will give you a bearing only. You might get a LITTLE bit of phospherous glow from the sea water lapping at the hull of the sub. But you will have darn little information on range, and any destroyer captain would be INSANE to open fire up on something that he's not sure about! Radar did change a lot of that, but, as he indicated it's 1939. I've actually had them open up on me from that distance, under the same conditions, with my engines at all stop, and after my many, many years of experience of actually dealing with weapons systems in the US Navy, my first thought was: "No effing way!" Change it to daytime, with a sea state of 0, and some very alert watch standers on the ship, and I'll give it to you. But at night, like that with choppy seas? 3 miles away? with a low profile like that? Not unless one of my watchstanders on the tower lit up a cigarette, and then I'd have him shot on the spot! Sorry guys, but this is one area that is unrealistic. And you don't have to take my word for it. My father spent 30 years in the navy, and when I showed him, he said "Bull ****! Ain't no way!" __________________ My Real Life Navy Brag Page Below http://www1.freewebs.com/andylegate/

10-07-07, 04:36 PM	#7
joea Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: At periscope depth in Lake Geneva Posts: 3,512 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	What was the weather like? Visibility moderate? Unlimited? how fast were you going? Were you pointing towards the convoy or parallel? You know you gotta approach at a slow speed, preferably decks awash...with the bow towards the enemy if possible. I never have a problem approaching early war convoys...just beware of experienced crews.