Where is my rudder?!?!

The Bandit · 10-04-07, 09:36 AM

Well I can see the realism value but I am very dismayed at how they implemented this. I was just attacked buy a destroyer at periscope depth in the USS Drum (I was trying to line up a close shot from my stern tubes) and took very sever damage to my stern torpedo room. It is completely flooded (I thought you autoatically died if a compartment was flooded) and had critical damage done to the bulkhead, the decoy tube and all of the aft tubes. Now here's what pisses me off, my rudder was literally knocked off, I have dive planes back there but NO rudder. After the DD passed me I was able to put two fish into the side of him (he sunk in about 2 minutes) but now that I have surfaced and have begun to repair most of the damage, I find that I cannot change course thanks to my missing rudder. I can understand how they would want to put this in the game but come on, now I can't finish my patrol and I don't think this realistic at all. Even without the rudder it would be possible (if highly inefficient) to steer the boat by differing the RPMs on either prop (sort of like how a tank steers by verying power to each tread, or like how they landed that DHL Airbus A300 that had its ailerons and rudder knocked out by a SAM) and what really bothers me is it is "invisible" damage just like how after being hevily depthcharged you find out your diesels don't work anymore, even though they are in perfect shape, as is my rudder transmission. If they really wanted to include this invisible damage so much they should have at least fiven you an option to scuttle once your boat is crippled.

mrbeast · 10-04-07, 09:55 AM

I think the ability to control each of the 4 engines individually would be a major addition to the game, unfortunately I doubt that it could be modded in.

seafarer · 10-04-07, 10:37 AM

I'd agree - that's one of the reasons for having two screws, the ability to crudely steer without rudder input. Remember that this was one of the notorious failings of the Bismark - her 3 screw configuration did not allow for effective emergency steering with the outboard propellers alone.

There should at least be some sort of ability to "emergency return to nearest port" or such, so you don't loose the whole patrol and career. At least as long as diesel power was still intact, the screws still able to turn, and the hull not flooding beyond control.

SteamWake · 10-04-07, 11:59 AM

This has been discussed many, many, many times.

In a nutshell if you lose your rudder (in the game) your screwed. Time to load a previous save.

I have wanted individual engine control since SH2 but alas it is not modeled and there is no way with the current game engine that it can.

The modders have given it extensive study and came away scratching their heads.

The 'emergency return' or RTB button was omitted from SH4 in an effort to cater to the reality crowd. I would not be supprised to see its return IF a 1.4 patch is ever published.

Sorry to break the news to you but... there it is.

seaniam81 · 10-04-07, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seafarer

At least as long as diesel power was still intact, the screws still able to turn, and the hull not flooding beyond control.

sorry a little off topic but incorrect (unless your sailing an S boat, or U-boat). The diesels were not connected to the screws in anyway. This is how it worked... Diesels powered generators that made electricity. Some of that power went to everyday things, some went back into charging the batterys (unless a hole engine went on charge), and most went to the electric engines to drive the boat on the surface.

SteamWake · 10-04-07, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seaniam81

Quote:

Originally Posted by seafarer

At least as long as diesel power was still intact, the screws still able to turn, and the hull not flooding beyond control.

sorry a little off topic but incorrect (unless your sailing an S boat, or U-boat). The diesels were not connected to the screws in anyway. This is how it worked... Diesels powered generators that made electricity. Some of that power went to everyday things, some went back into charging the batterys (unless a hole engine went on charge), and most went to the electric engines to drive the boat on the surface.

True but each 'shaft' had individual controls to adjust their RPM. So what there requesting is not unreasonable.

seafarer · 10-04-07, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seaniam81

Quote:

Originally Posted by seafarer

At least as long as diesel power was still intact, the screws still able to turn, and the hull not flooding beyond control.

sorry a little off topic but incorrect (unless your sailing an S boat, or U-boat). The diesels were not connected to the screws in anyway. This is how it worked... Diesels powered generators that made electricity. Some of that power went to everyday things, some went back into charging the batterys (unless a hole engine went on charge), and most went to the electric engines to drive the boat on the surface.

I was aware of that, sorry - should have said as long as diesels and motors were intact. As steamwake mentions, what would be desired is simply the ability to individually adjust each shaft's turns (ie. not manipulate the motors or engines themselves).

10-04-07, 09:36 AM	#1
The Bandit Sonar Guy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 395 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 1	Where is my rudder?!?! Well I can see the realism value but I am very dismayed at how they implemented this. I was just attacked buy a destroyer at periscope depth in the USS Drum (I was trying to line up a close shot from my stern tubes) and took very sever damage to my stern torpedo room. It is completely flooded (I thought you autoatically died if a compartment was flooded) and had critical damage done to the bulkhead, the decoy tube and all of the aft tubes. Now here's what pisses me off, my rudder was literally knocked off, I have dive planes back there but NO rudder. After the DD passed me I was able to put two fish into the side of him (he sunk in about 2 minutes) but now that I have surfaced and have begun to repair most of the damage, I find that I cannot change course thanks to my missing rudder. I can understand how they would want to put this in the game but come on, now I can't finish my patrol and I don't think this realistic at all. Even without the rudder it would be possible (if highly inefficient) to steer the boat by differing the RPMs on either prop (sort of like how a tank steers by verying power to each tread, or like how they landed that DHL Airbus A300 that had its ailerons and rudder knocked out by a SAM) and what really bothers me is it is "invisible" damage just like how after being hevily depthcharged you find out your diesels don't work anymore, even though they are in perfect shape, as is my rudder transmission. If they really wanted to include this invisible damage so much they should have at least fiven you an option to scuttle once your boat is crippled. __________________

10-04-07, 09:55 AM	#2
mrbeast Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bolton, UK Posts: 1,236 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think the ability to control each of the 4 engines individually would be a major addition to the game, unfortunately I doubt that it could be modded in. __________________

10-04-07, 10:37 AM	#3
seafarer Commodore Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 622 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'd agree - that's one of the reasons for having two screws, the ability to crudely steer without rudder input. Remember that this was one of the notorious failings of the Bismark - her 3 screw configuration did not allow for effective emergency steering with the outboard propellers alone. There should at least be some sort of ability to "emergency return to nearest port" or such, so you don't loose the whole patrol and career. At least as long as diesel power was still intact, the screws still able to turn, and the hull not flooding beyond control.

10-04-07, 11:59 AM	#4
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	This has been discussed many, many, many times. In a nutshell if you lose your rudder (in the game) your screwed. Time to load a previous save. I have wanted individual engine control since SH2 but alas it is not modeled and there is no way with the current game engine that it can. The modders have given it extensive study and came away scratching their heads. The 'emergency return' or RTB button was omitted from SH4 in an effort to cater to the reality crowd. I would not be supprised to see its return IF a 1.4 patch is ever published. Sorry to break the news to you but... there it is.