UK Prison officers go on strike

[STEED]

Thousands of prison officers in England and Wales are staging an illegal strike over pay and conditions.
The national walk-out by warders has taken the Government and Prison Service officials by complete surprise and led to picket lines being mounted outside jails across the country

http://itn.co.uk/news/58c075795fdbf8...90c0fdd99.html

Good for them.

And of course all the bleeding heart liberals are up in arms, what about the poor prisoners and there rights. For the record prisoners have more human rights than the prison warders and only recently a stupid report recommended prison warders knock on a prisoners cell door before entering, what next book an appointment to see them.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by STEED

For the record prisoners have more human rights than the prison warders and only recently a stupid report recommended prison warders knock on a prisoners cell door before entering, what next book an appointment to see them.

Eh?

As far as I can remember, human rights are not dependent on criminal record.
Of course, with prison one loses one's liberty. So there's one gone.
Do you mean human rights specifically?

[Heibges]

A lot of my friends and from High School are prison guards. I know in the United States, there are lots of little scams prison guards run, especially to drive up their overtime, and that they are very well paid.

Personally, I would never want to do it. Working 20 years as a guard, is like serving 7 years in prison.

[Letum]

For the record prisoners have more human rights than the prison warders

err...no...the EU convention human rights apply equaly to all humans in the country unless they are civily imprisoned, in wich case they lose a few. Most noteably protocol 4 article 2. "[the] right to freely move within a country once lawfully there and for a right to leave any country.".

You need to read up on your human rights.

HERE is the EU human rights convention (Read this one first)
HERE is the UK human rights act (the UKs implementation, amendments and interpretation of the EU convention)

The EUs human rights are the absolute bare minimum standard with which a human should be treated.

*edit* What on earth made you thinkprisoners have more human rights than the prison warders?! Back on topic: The (Illegal) Strike has been called off.

Back on topic: the (illegal) strike has been called off. The prision warden's union agreed not to strike and must give 1 years notice before breaking this agreement. They only gave notice in May.

[STEED]

Have a chat with the prison warder my folks know.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by STEED

Have a chat with the prison warder my folks know.

If he is equally ignorant then feel free to pass the links on.

[Skybird]

Those declarations say little or nothing on what to do if you are requested to respect people's rights that do not respect your same rights in return. that is the general problem that I always have with such ultimate, total declarations: they are totally idealistic, not realistic, and they do not care for reciprocity even when dealing with cannibals. And why I should be obligated to respect somebody's right on a certain issue when at the same time this somebody does not respect my very same right on the very same issue, escapes my reason and understanding.

Rights need to know duties in return. Tolerance is a mutual affair, if it is onesided only, it leads to suicide by anarchy. The magic word is: reciprocity. Many people know their rights very well, but do not want to know about their duties, and what they owe in return. They understand justice to be not more than their own egoism. On the other hand, also many naive people run around and claim it to be a virtue to even grant these rights to people who do not respect them in return, and then they are wondering why these freedoms and liberties get so often abused, and get abused in incressing numbers, and our complete social and institutional communal life gets hollowed out that way.

If somebody says: treat others the way you want to be treated, that I can understand. But that is no ultimate law imo, it is a subjective advise. Ultimate and final declarations like above, on the other hand, I have less and lesser sympathy for the older I get. Dealing with an offender in a reasonable way can, but must not be covered by the rules of such ultimate declarations. Sometimes it is more reasonable and moral to ignore them.

I said it before, and refer to it again, in the fourth or fifth Dirty Harry movie, there is the situation when Clint has arrested the Kidnapper of a girl, and the girl will run out of air in so and so many hours, and the kidnapper does not give away where he has buried her. What is the more moral thing to do? Allowing him to hide between his right not be be mistreated and tortured, and see the girl dying, or torture the offender until you have the information, and save the innocent victim's life?

My answer is clear, and I cannot understand how anyopne could start arguing about this example. I have not the smallest doubt on it: the interests of the kidnapper runs many times lower than the interest of his victim who is in danger to get killed. It is totally immoral imo to even consider the other option, and let the victim die. In the movie, Clint was sure that he got the right man, and it was true in that story. How to be sure you do not get tough on somebody who is mistakenly identified as the perpetrator - this is the real problem I see, not the morality in principle to use physical force and torture to safe a victims.

This I say although I am no friend of torture and am very unforgiving about political torture, and had to deal with it very closely years ago, concerning victims of arbitrary torture from the Balkans.

Declaration of these and those rights here and there - okay, go on, declare them, it sounds nice once the silence sets in again. I still insist to look at the individual case, and judge by examination of the single individual case, no matter what any generalized declarations of rights are saying on the issue at question. And when looking at the monumental volumes of laws we have, that even professional specialist cannot completely overview anymore, I have lost any trust that these volumes secure justice anyway. As we all know, money, and power, run by it's own rules most of the times anyway.

[tycho102]

Originally Posted by STEED

Thousands of prison officers in England and Wales are staging an illegal strike over pay and conditions.

picket lines being mounted outside jails across the country

It's illegal to strike because there are critical services to the economy and society. Never mind politicans chopping funding to them every cycle -- they're critical.

I've always liked that regulatory control.

[Tchocky]

I don't think that that kind of situation is very likely outside of a Dirty Harry movie, Skybird. I just don't see a guy strapped to a chair while a Big Red Digital Readout clicks down down down

[Letum]

Originally Posted by tycho102

It's illegal to strike because there are critical services to the economy and society. Never mind politicans chopping funding to them every cycle -- they're critical.

I've always liked that regulatory control.

No, it's not illegal because it's a critical service. It is illegal because the union agreed not to strike and must give 12 months notice before breaking this agreement. They only gave notice in may.

[TteFAboB]

This whole thread is outrageous.

You people have no conscience. I can't tolerate this humanoid prejudice. Down with Human Rights, in with Sentient Being Rights!

Robots are people too, you know! And they should have every right to work in prison just as humans do.

ED-209 for warden! ED-209 for guard!