Gyro Angle

[cali03boss]

Maybe someone can help me....because I thought I was doing this all right but apparently not.

It is very rare that I ever use the gyro angle, and the rare times I do are usually when I'm faced with a convoy. I used to think that by setting the gyro angle 2-3 clicks over in the direction the convoy was traveling (relative to the bow)....you would be able to account for certain errors in targeting. It has worked so far. But recently I tried to do the same idea but at a single target, and at a closer distance. What ended up happening is the torpedo completely turned around on me and started going in the OPPOSITE direction.

My question is...how exactly do you use the gyro dial. When do you know to use it? And why is it not as simple as the Spread system used in Sh3?

[gutted]

you dont really "use" the gyro angle per-se. its mainly just an indication of how much the torpedo will turn.

the closer to 0 the gyro is when you fire.. the less the torpedo has to turn and the more accurate it will be.

but... you also want to keep an eye on impact angle. that is the pointer on the dial above that one. you want it to be close to 90 so the torpedo doesn't glance off the target.

it's a juggling act. waiting for the gyro to get to 0 might make your impact angle too great.

[cali03boss]

I was under the impression that the gyro angle does not change unless you set it to change.

[tater]

The TDC automatically sets the gyro angle. That is any solution that has the fish on a heading other than the sub's heading.

Do you mean the spread angle on the torpedo setting control.

The spread angle is a relative angle off the TDC computed gyro angle.

tater

[cali03boss]

Maybe I mean the spread angle...but the dial for it says Gyro.

If i'm wrong...how do I set the spread angle?

I've been spreading my shots by redoing range and bearing estimates.

[gutted]

if you use the PK, every torpedo fired will be aimed at the center mass of the ship (or whichever part you were aiming at when sending the bearing data).

to hit other parts of the ship with successive torpedos, you adjust that dial to gyro the torpedo more or less.

so basically. fire 1 torpedo, then set the dial left alittle.. fire a torpedo.. then set the dial right alittle and fire another one.

[tater]

The spread angle is degrees off the current solution, left and right. It is GLOBAL, so if you are ready to shoot, and move to tube 2, set a 1 degree right, then to tube 3 and set 1 degree left, then open tube 1 and shoot, it will be 1 degree left. *(that make sense?).

So to fire a spread, shoot a tube at 0, then move to another tube, set the offset angle and shoot, then another tube, and whatever spread angle and shoot. I always try to set it back to zero when I'm done or I will certainly screw up the next shot, lol.

This is one of those cases where "full manual" shooting in unrealistic. The skipper would have a crew, and he could very well order a spread---the TDC wouldn't do it automatically, but his crew would (meaning to the skipper it doesn't matter if it's a black box, or a guy with a screwdriver, he says so, and it gets done).

tater

[cali03boss]

see thats what I mean. Why was it so much easier to just set a predesignated 20-30 degree angle of spread in SH3?

[joea]

Originally Posted by cali03boss

see thats what I mean. Why was it so much easier to just set a predesignated 20-30 degree angle of spread in SH3?

Because the German TDC was different? US boats did not fire spreads in the same way as Germans AFAIK. Not a good answer but there it is.

[Frederf]

US Navy doctorine was not compatible with spreads like the German U-boats. They lacked the equipment for one, but it was probably an obvious idea to have pre programmed spreads that launch at once that they decided against. My understanding is that torpedos launched together was thought to be too risky. One could set off the other during travel or impact so there was some minimum seperation mandated.

The "Gryo Fudge Factor" dial is curious since I don't know exactly when its position matters and when it doesn't when firing. Set value, hit fire, and the dial doesn't effect the torpedo any more? I am always nervous that changing that dial between hitting the launch button and the torpedo leaving the tube might have an adverse effect.

[tater]

I think it IS a failing in the game. Again, a US skipper could very well order a spread---his attack party would set it up and do it. So it would be nice to have such a control, and the crew would simply execute your orders (again, the hardware needn't have been set up to do it automatically, you have junior officers to do that work for you).

There is a reason though, that this was the case.

The torpedos were to be fired 8-10 seconds apart to avoid codetonation, both from prematues, and from the magnetic influence of a neighboring fish. The 8-10 seconds was plenty of time to dial in a spread angle.

tater

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by joea

Because the German TDC was different? US boats did not fire spreads in the same way as Germans AFAIK. Not a good answer but there it is.

The difference was in the TDC. The American TDC had a global setting which had to be manually changed for each torpedo fired. The German TDC distributed the total spread angle among the torpedoes fired. I agree with tater that as far as the captain is concerned, both systems are identical, so a correct reproduction of the machinery resulted in a too-cumbersome game experience. Usually you're only firing 2 or 3 fish anyway, so it's manageable. However, if you're throwing 6 to 10 fish at a CV...

Hey, I'm playing the game tonight to help gutted with the nuts and bolts of his system. Basically I'm going to try to point and shoot with manual settings. Should be fun. Any pointers? I'll check back after awhile.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by joea

Because the German TDC was different? US boats did not fire spreads in the same way as Germans AFAIK. Not a good answer but there it is.

Sure they did! From…

Current Doctrine Submarines
USF 25(A)

Prepared By
COMMANDER SUBMARINE FORCE, PACIFIC FLEET
FEBRUARY, 1944

Chapter 5: Attack – General
…

Q. Spread -- A spread consists of a salvo of torpedoes fired to hit at different points along the length of the target or its length extended. There are three forms of spread:

1. Longitudinal spread. A pattern formed by firing a succession of torpedoes along a practically identical track. The submarine steers a constant course and uses the same periscope and gyro angles, but fires at different points of aim on the same target.
2. Divergent spread. A fan-like pattern formed by a succession of torpedoes fired at the same point of aim but with gyros set to such angles that torpedoes cross the target track at different points. This is not to be confused with the change in gyro angles necessary to make all torpedoes of a salvo hit the target at the same point.
3. Parallel spread. A pattern formed by firing torpedoes simultaneously from bow and stern tubes with gyro angles set so that the torpedoes run parallel.Spread angle is the additional gyro angle, over that required for hitting the same point of a moving target, set on the torpedo to make any type of spread.
   …
   The minimum spread used should cover at least 80% of the target length.
   Firing torpedoes on different tracks to hit the same point of a moving target is not considered firing a spread. A spread is fired only when the torpedoes are aimed to hit at different distances from the same point of aim.
   …
   Standard commands for torpedo control are essential for the same reasons as other types of standard phraseology and the following are prescribed:
4. "Make ready the (bow) (stern) tubes." This orders all designated tubes flooded and made ready in all respects for firing. Only certain numbered tubes may be designated if desired.
5. Set gyro angle(s) _____ degrees." Specific angles are ordered for individual tubes when necessary. This order is used when ships are not supplied with, or are not using, the automatic or "follow the pointer" angle-setting equipment. The order provides for relative settings being received in the torpedo rooms so that necessity for conversion by the torpedo personnel is obviated.
6. "Set spread angle _____ degrees." this orders spread angle to be set when using divergent spreads on submarines equipped with and using the automatic or "follow the pointer" gyro-setting equipment.

JCC

[joea]

Ahhh thanks John, well it still isn't set the same way as in SH3 as you can't fire all torps at once. Mind you don't fire at once in SH3 either but the timing is much closer than what USN doctrine was.

[don1reed]

Torpedo Fire Control Manual at: http://hnsa.org/doc/attack/

Everyone needs a copy of this.