TV prog, "Kursk:Submarine in troubled waters"

[Steel_Tomb]

Did anyone watch it on the history channel at 9pm tonight?? It was good, putting forward some strong evidence that she was hit by a Mk48 fish. Anyone else see it?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

Did anyone watch it on the history channel at 9pm tonight?? It was good, putting forward some strong evidence that she was hit by a Mk48 fish. Anyone else see it?

If Kapitan sees this, he is going to blow you up for suggesting that. According to him, it is impossible for a Mk 48 to take out the kursk with only one shot.

But quite frankly, this has been hashed here before and no one here beleives that garbage of a Mk 48 downing that thing as far as I can tell.

THe actual evidence shows 99% chance that it was a propellant charge that went off. History channel likes making conspiracy theories though to get good ratings.

-S

[Steel_Tomb]

Oh yeah, I know its all hypothetical and just suggestion. But there was a pretty perfectly rounded hole in the side that they forgot to cover up. Of course we will never know the TRUE cause of the loss of the Kursk, but you can't rule out US involvement. They did have two subs in the area.

Don't shoot me for saying it Kap' lol...

My personal thought is that a fish went hot inside the Kursk and blew it to bits, us Brits learnt our lesson when we lost a sub to those unstable torpedo's...its a shame the Russian authorities seem to think "problem, what problem??" until something major happens!

[Kapitan]

Where do i start, 1st i need linton 2nd i need my car 3rd i need to load up my car at lintons with all my information on how it cannot be an american submarine that fired on kursk.

2ndly put a MK48 up the anus of a oscar 2 or under the middle it will sink it, hit it head on (the strongest part) it wont do much hit it mid ships it can still make surfaced even heavily damaged.

[Safe-Keeper]

its a shame humans seem to think "problem, what problem??" until something major happens!

Corrected, in 100% seriousness.

While the Russians are not exactly world champions in maintenance and threat reduction, humans are in general experts in not handling risks until its too late. I can list countless cases of known dangers being ignored until they caused fatalities - in some cases many fatalities. And the worst thing is that we just never learn.

Of course we will never know the TRUE cause of the loss of the Kursk [...]

Typical conspiracy theorist line. 'We may never know whether or not Elvis really died/the WTC was hit by an airplane/a UFO went down in Roswell'. Well, if you disregard the true reason and evidence, of course you won't. If I disregard the assassination of Arch-Duke Ferdinand as a hoax, I'll 'never know the true reason World War I started'.

Kursk was sunk when an internal explosion led to the detonation of several warheads inside the ship (this is what caused the huge circular hole). End of story.

[Kapitan]

A fish most likely went hot inside a tube which caused it all to back fire, causing a fire in torpedo bay, then all torpedos clocked off and bang.

what id like to know is, at battle stations why were the hatchs open

if they were ment to be closed the submarine could have blown ballast and hit the fire surpression system it would have saved the sub and most of the crew.

why didnt the aft 23 crew try and make surface?

[Kapitan]

i hate to piss on the bonfire here but the pictures i have of that hole show the metal around it going inwards not out, if they clocked off inside the submarine the edges around the hole should be facing out.

Whats more russian warheads are not fitted with shape charges like the american ones so you wont get a perfect cut.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Corrected, in 100% seriousness.
While the Russians are not exactly world champions in maintenance and threat reduction, humans are in general experts in not handling risks until its too late. I can list countless cases of known dangers being ignored until they caused fatalities - in some cases many fatalities. And the worst thing is that we just never learn.

And also, to be fair, they simply had different operational requirements. The British can afford to give up their HTP torpedoes because with a shift to ASW, they have less immediate need for a long range, high-speed torpedo.
In the 70s, apparently only the Americans have perfected the use of Otto monopropellant fuel (even the Brit Spearfish was 80s). That left the rest of the world b/w batteries and HTP (or Oxygen torpedoes). The Soviets needed long range torpedoes so they can fire spreads at American battle groups at the longest feasible range. Thus HTP was their only option. Eventually, they managed to get their hands on a Mk46 and made a Kolibri, thus gaining experience in the use of such weapons for the UGST torpedo.
They did try, just that the tech was unavailable. When the tech became available, the USSR broke up and there was no money for anything.

[Subnuts]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

It was good, putting forward some strong evidence that she was hit by a Mk48 fish.

Christ, is every submarine that ever sunk the victim of an enemy torpedo and a massive cover-up now? It's bad enough that Ed Offley is raking in the dough from Scorpion Down. It's even worse that this sort of stuff slithers into the mainstream so quickly.

[NefariousKoel]

As there was a WW2, there is a Cold War 2 on it's way it seems.

Old people sticking to old ways. Maybe it's a good thing.

[Oberon]

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Subnuts

Christ, is every submarine that ever sunk the victim of an enemy torpedo and a massive cover-up now? It's bad enough that Ed Offley is raking in the dough from Scorpion Down. It's even worse that this sort of stuff slithers into the mainstream so quickly.

It just seems to be human nature to love a wacky conspiracy theory.

[Safe-Keeper]

Christ, is every submarine that ever sunk the victim of an enemy torpedo and a massive cover-up now?

Coming up next, confidential naval records and diaries reveal what really happened to the Hunley! We uncover what might be One of the Biggest Coverups in American History™, only on the Discovery Channel!

It just seems to be human nature to love a wacky conspiracy theory.

Absolutely. It's an interesting thing, really, to read about them and consider which accidents and catastrophies become conspiracy theories ('cause after all, you can build a conspiracy theory off any larger event - just mystify the coincidences and things that at first sight look strange). Wikipedia has an article on it, which I'll get back to when their technical problems are solved.

[Steel_Tomb]

Woah lol, I'm not even following all this "conspiracy" stuff. I was just pointing out what the tv prog said. I believe the same as Kap, that a fish went hot in the tube and detonated the unstable propellant in the other fish causing a flash fire which in turn killed most of the crew. The only thing I find off is the perfect circular hole in the side, but its far from proving that a US fish sank her.

[Kapitan]

what wasnt pointed out and what alot of people do not know is the following:

During the loading of one of the 65-76 torpedos one of them became detached from its cradle and slammed down onto the pier, the torpedo went on anyway, there was no way of checking for internal damage and the submarine was already late in joining the exercise.