SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > General > General Topics
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-30-07, 05:30 PM   #1
SUBMAN1
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11,866
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default Hackers find serious problems in California voting machines

Interesting, but not surprising.

-S

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33137/118/


Quote:


Sacramento (CA) – A new California study has found that several electronic voting machines have serious security vulnerabilities. California Secretary of State Debra Bowen commissioned the study which pitted two hacker teams, better known as “Red Teams” against voting machines manufactured by Diebold, Hart and Sequoia. The hackers found several security problems and were able to change firmware, access the election database and even open up the machines without detection.
Quote:

The study was headed by Matt Bishop from UC Davis. The first Red Team was lead by Robert Abbott and his team examined the Diebold and Hart machines at a secure facility in Sacramento. Giovanni Vigna and Richard Kemmerer from UC Santa Barbara matched wits with the Sequoia voting machine.

Both teams found alarming security problems in all the machines. Bishop summed it up by writing, “The red teams demonstrated that the security mechanisms provided for all systems analyzed were inadequate to ensure accuracy and integrity of the election results.”

Abbott’s team was able to access election data directly by exploiting vulnerabilities in the Diebold machine’s Windows operating system – an operating system that all three e-voting machines use. They were also able to bypass locks and other physical security with “ordinary objects”. Election data on the Hart machine was also easily compromised.

Vigna’s team also found physical security on the Sequoia voting machine to be inadequate. They gained access to the machine’s insides by unscrewing a few locks and discovered that the screws with not protected by seals.

The study adds that all three machines used some form of Windows operating system and that each machine's firmware was easily overwritten by the teams.

Bishop complains that his teams didn’t have enough time to fully document all the security vulnerabilities because they study started in mid-June and ended July 20th. Secretary of State Bowen had said that the deadline could not be extended because the counties need at least six months to examine the findings. Bishop added that Abbott’s team was close to finding several other problems, but simply ran out of time.
__________________
SUBMAN1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-07, 12:06 AM   #2
Spoon 11th
Seasoned Skipper
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 689
Downloads: 10
Uploads: 0
Default

"The lesson is: never vote" - Homer Simpson.
Spoon 11th is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-07, 05:09 AM   #3
P_Funk
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 2,537
Downloads: 129
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
The study adds that all three machines used some form of Windows operating system and that each machine's firmware was easily overwritten by the teams.
Well theres your problem. Graft strikes again. Windows + Security = Le Suck.

You know another reason why I love my country? The voting. Know how we do it? No chads, no buttons or levers. You don't have to pick your candidate like you do your lotto numbers, no. We have a big circle and a pencil. You put an 'X' in the circle for your candidate and then you fold it and drop it in the freaking box.

Whats wrong with the 'X'? America is great for so many reasons. But this whole voting revolution is just, in the parlance of our times, GAY!

EDIT.

LOOK!
__________________


P_Funk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-07, 09:42 AM   #4
Heibges
Sea Lord
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: San Francisco, California
Posts: 1,633
Downloads: 1
Uploads: 0
Default

And the really funny part is that we knew they could be easily hacked before we installed them.
__________________
U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface.

http://www.hackworth.com/
Heibges is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-07, 01:34 PM   #5
SUBMAN1
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11,866
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heibges
And the really funny part is that we knew they could be easily hacked before we installed them.
I know - it is pretty sad. ANd they forced them down are throats - kind of like a solution waiting for a problem, but in the case the solution to a non-existant problem, created a ton of problems! Crazy.

THey probably want these machines in there precisely because they can be hacked and the vote count skewed.

-S
__________________
SUBMAN1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-07, 01:35 PM   #6
SUBMAN1
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11,866
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P_Funk
Quote:
The study adds that all three machines used some form of Windows operating system and that each machine's firmware was easily overwritten by the teams.
Well theres your problem. Graft strikes again. Windows + Security = Le Suck.

You know another reason why I love my country? The voting. Know how we do it? No chads, no buttons or levers. You don't have to pick your candidate like you do your lotto numbers, no. We have a big circle and a pencil. You put an 'X' in the circle for your candidate and then you fold it and drop it in the freaking box.

Whats wrong with the 'X'? America is great for so many reasons. But this whole voting revolution is just, in the parlance of our times, GAY!

EDIT.

LOOK!
I hear ya.
__________________
SUBMAN1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-07, 04:54 PM   #7
hoagiedriver
Seaman
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 41
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

What's even more sad is there isn't a paper recept for a paper trail, and there were dippoops that still defended it!
hoagiedriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-07, 08:38 PM   #8
P_Funk
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 2,537
Downloads: 129
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBMAN1
I hear ya.
I get a warm fuzzy feeling when we agree, SUBMAN.
__________________


P_Funk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-07, 08:54 PM   #9
waste gate
Stowaway
 
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoagiedriver
What's even more sad is there isn't a paper recept for a paper trail, and there were dippoops that still defended it!
In my opinion the really sad thing is how many people aren't of an education that they can vote correctly. My experience is that computer voting is much like P_funk described as Canadian voting, except on a video screen. Beyond that, one is required to review the choices before submitting the vote.

If the ability to hack into that system is the issue then it is upto the local election officials to close that opening. If they cannot, time for them to leave. I'm a bit taken aback that private industry can secure networks and government cannot.
If the political will existed I'm sure it can be done.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 04:13 AM   #10
P_Funk
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 2,537
Downloads: 129
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waste gate
If the ability to hack into that system is the issue then it is upto the local election officials to close that opening. If they cannot, time for them to leave. I'm a bit taken aback that private industry can secure networks and government cannot.
If the political will existed I'm sure it can be done.
I think that thats a bit of a broad generalization there. More of the ole' free market is god stuff. Granted security is tight in multinational computer bases, I do recall hearing about the DOD getting hacked and I'm pretty sure that national security spends alot on keeping its systems secure. That and companies get hacked all the time. Here I think you're describing the problem as your political position dictates you interpret it when common sense says "who cares if private or government are better at stopping hackers, why the hell are we even making this electronic in the first place?"

Honestly, we can put a man on the moon but why would we? Whats the motiovation? Why is everyone so exited to make voting another after thought of the computer age like paying with your credit card? If you can't fly home to vote in the election or even use a pencil or EVEN pay people to read the ballots individually then why even bother with democracy? Computers are here to make things more convenient. I don't believe that voting should be any more convenient than it already is.
__________________


P_Funk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-07, 09:44 PM   #11
TteFAboB
Admiral
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,247
Downloads: 4
Uploads: 0
Default

Wait untill Internet voting is promoted. Log on some website and submit your vote. Now your presence isn't needed anymore, your IP's will suffice. You'll just have to squeeze it in-between those hundreds of thousands of fake IPs.
__________________
"Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." ("All that is exaggerated is insignificant.") - Talleyrand
TteFAboB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2025 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.