Of Damage Models and Scuttling Charges...

[Tally Ho]

Captain Tally reporting from the Celebes Sea with another odd question...

So, the redoubtable S-30 is returning from the longest, most-fruitful patrol to date... 1 harbor shot up, another photographed, two freighters torped, a few sampans gunned down, 2 DDs evaded, and an entire small convoy sunk by gun after their lone minesweeper escort was torped (and on Realistic! I'm getting better or I'm getting lucky)

Then, on a quiet misty day in the approaches to the Makassar Strait, S-30 going south sees a medium old split freighter appear out of the fog headed north. Well, I still have 20 shells left in the gun (AP, alas) and two torpedoes after all of the above fun, so S-30 submerges, turns to port, and begins what will be (due to lack of weapons) the last attack of the patrol. Both torpedoes are fired from a range of 500 yards. Both explode, the first about 1/3 of the way back from the bow and the second right on the bow itself (I always seem to overestimate target speed a little). Well, the freighter turns east and runs, though ever more slowly. S-30 surfaces and follows at a distance of about a mile, hoping to see it sink.

Well, it doesn't. Hmph. At least I still have those 20 AP shells! S-30 closes the distance, watching for return fire that never comes. At a comfortable range PO Joyce and Gunner's Mate Simmons open fire, aiming for the water line, putting several more holes at or below the waterline on the target's port side, until all ammo was exhausted. The target was listing heavily, had two fires on board, and eventually, after another mile of sluggish escape, came to a stop, though the crew did not abandon ship.

Well, the S-30 is now completely toothless, but the deck watch has great hopes of seeing the target go down in 300 feet of water presently, so we wait...

....and wait....

....and wait.

Sadly, the target is discovered to be the Pingapong Maru, 8 days out of Bangkok en route to the Marianas with a cargo of balsa wood, life vests and ping pong balls, and isn't going to sink without a little more help. So, the XO and Chief Baker are sent with a party of armed men to place a couple of charges on board, open the sweetening cocks and get back to the S-30 while the charges blow and send the aggravatingly buoyant ship to the bottom.

(Of course, such a course of action isn't covered by SH4, no matter how modded, so I decide to simulate it by doing the following: The target looks like its just a few hit points/few hundred gallons of flooding short of going down, SO, I reason maybe a few well-placed gentle rams with a nearly-undamaged sub will do the damage needed to sink it without harming me overmuch.

So, I ram... gently at first, then with more and more vigor. Nothing. I try bow, stern, port, starboard. The ship remains afloat. It becomes a quest to sink that damn ship, no matter how silly the tactics. Ultimately, I manage to time a surface at flank speed so that I breach the S-30 and land her bows across the nearly-awash bows of the target. Keeping the engines full ahead, I drive the S-30 until she is more or less aboard the enemy vessel, then flood the tanks (impossible, perhaps, but at this point I'm trying to beat the game model rather than simulate an actual submarine action).

Slowly, ever-so-slowly, the S-30 sinks down THROUGH the target, popping out the bottom of the hull and colliding once or twice more. I back off and surface, set time compression to full and wait for four hours, throughout which the target sits rock-still, sinking not a whit further. Ugh.... it's unsinkable. So I decide to give it a cursory departing ram before departing to the south. Wind up... Flank Speed... Ram!

And the S-30 instantly takes full damage to all systems and sinks...

Clearly I'd been doing hit-point damage bit by bit during all these outlandish submarine escapades, makes sense... I was rather surprised I hadn't sunk myself already. But then, wouldn't I also be doing hit point damage to the target, hopefully sinking it before I took myself down from near-pristine to sunk?

I -am- using the Natural Sinking Mechanics mod, as well as the latest Trigger Maru. I'm not at all upset about what happened, since I was already well outside the bounds of normal actions I can expect to be modeled by the game, but I -was a bit curious about how damage would be modeled in such a situation. To wit...

-Even with the NSM in place, where sinking is buoyancy-related rather than HP related, is there still Hit Point damage being done? I thought not, but clearly I was taking HP damage, even though the target wasn't.

-Is a point reached where the game stops 'checking' to see if a damaged target will sink or continue to settle? It seems after a certain point that that freighter just became locked with about 18 inches of freeboard and stopped sinking, and nothing else would cause it to get even an inch lower in the water

-Does anyone have a good tactic for sinking a vessel under such conditions? Perhaps I should have marked the map, rearmed at Java and returned, just to satisfy my Ahab-like obsession.

Captain Tally
At the Bottom of the Celebes Sea
Wondering Why the Marianas Garrisons Need All Those Ping Pong Balls

[NefariousKoel]

Heya.

The TM 1.6.2 patch that you're using has tougher damage modelling. If you want to go back to the way it was in 1.6 just remove the 1.6.2 patch and TM 1.6 with your JSGME.

Next, go into your mods folder in your game directory and into the 1.6.2 TM patch file. Delete the /Data/Zones.cfg file.

Lastly, re-enable the 1.6 and 1.6.2 patch mods in your JSGME.

Now you're back to the easier sinking!


Note:
I did this myself. While I liked the idea of better damage modelling, I experienced a case of having to use 9 torpedoes on a Light Cruiser before it sank. That's a little too hardcore for me.

[Tally Ho]

Oh, tougher damage modelling is fine, I was just wondering if perhaps my sub was taking hit point damage from the previous collisions (the only way I could see suffering the sudden insta-death that I did) while the target was either A) Sinking based only on buoyancy, as I believe the NSM Mod is or B) sitting in some sort of state whereby it had taken all the damage it was going to take and couldn't be pushed over the edge by anything short of another torpedo or several more shells.

In any event, my save game file from prior to the engagement appears to be corrupt, as it crashes the game on loading, so... the USS S-30 is on the bottom for good, now. Tonight, I must start a new career (and make a new signature)

I wonder what S-Boat I'll get this time? I'd play a Porpoise but I want to earn it

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Tally Ho

Sadly, the target is discovered to be the Pingapong Maru, 8 days out of Bangkok en route to the Marianas with a cargo of balsa wood, life vests and ping pong balls, and isn't going to sink without a little more help.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Doolan]

Best post EVER

[Snuffy]

Good story Capt'n Tally ... unfortunately I've had to let a couple ships that I felt I should have got credit for go for just the same reasons that you list.

Better load up the save game and try again! :p

[Rockin Robbins]

Been there, done that, but didn't tell a story half as great! I second the motion that this is one of the best posts ever.

[Theraven]

Haha, at that point I'd be tempted to go to the nearest port and refit so I could return and blow it sky high out of spite.

[chopped50ford]

That was a great story!