Russia blames US in missile row

[Happy Times]

Russia blames US in missile row

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6708459.stm

[CCIP]

I don't quite follow the title of the thread. The US wants to install stuff at Russia's back door and wants Putin to be all happy about it? Or blame someone else - like who, Canada?

I think the guy made a good and rational response. If the US is developing new missile technology, updating their own is certainly a fair move. The US wants strategic security, Russia wants strategic security.

Or is this one of the cases of "What is allowed to Jupiter is not allowed to a bull?" :hmm:

PS - is anyone actually naive enough to believe that the US is setting up defenses against Iran and North Korea (and not Russia) in Eastern Europe? Don't they have friendly bases a little closer to the 'axis of evil', like, say, Iraq/Kuwait/Saudi Arabia/Turkey or Japan/South Korea, or even Tajikistan for crying out loud? Makes no sense to me. If nothing else, they should at least say the truth - I think anyone who thinks the US doesn't have reservations about Russian strategic interests and is not seriously considering Russia in its strategic deterrent plans is fooling themselves.

Why would Putin be upset about defensive missles being on european soil unless he and his government has some alterior (domination of europe) motive?

From what I can discern it is the former 'eastern block' counties which want the defensive missles. Perhaps they know something the rest of you don't.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by CCIP

PS - is anyone actually naive enough to believe that the US is setting up defenses against Iran and North Korea (and not Russia) in Eastern Europe?

Most Americans are I would say. Just look at what this administration has gotten away with when it says it's for the war on terror. Not that I think this whole missile defense thing is a bad idea, I'm just saying the administration has gotten pretty used to using that line.

Oh, and nice sig CCIP. You have excellent taste in games.

PD

[Happy Times]

Off course they can have their own missiles and develop them all they want.. I dont care if they use all their money on weapons, ordinary Russians dont seem to.
But why make a fuss about it, the US missiles arent a cabable defence against the Russian arsenal. So they cannot be seen as a threat. The onlyone benefiting from the rising tension is Putin. To strenghten the picture of him being the protector of Rossia against Estonian fascists, Georgian cabbage traders, Oligarch Jews, MI6, CIA....

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Why would Putin be upset about defensive missles being on european soil unless he and his government has some alterior (domination of europe) motive?

Because it upsets the strategic balance. And the Russians are inherently nervous about any Western influence in their traditional sphere of influence (read forced domination), let alone military installations.

PD

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Because it upsets the strategic balance. And the Russians are inherently nervous about any Western influence in their traditional sphere of influence (read forced domination), let alone military installations.

PD

So we agree.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by waste gate

So we agree.

More or less. I would disagree that Putin is bent on dominating the former Soviet Republics though. I don't think it's domination so much as keeping NATO/the West out of his back yard.

PD

[SUBMAN1]

Are people seriously arguing this point? That is plain stupid. Russia can unleash 1000's of nukes on the US, and we can shoot down what? 6 of them? Get real people and get a life!

-S

PS. Putin is using this for propoganda - something that has an alterior motive. So what is that motive? An excuse for developing their latest missile? I bet it has something to do with that.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Because it upsets the strategic balance. And the Russians are inherently nervous about any Western influence in their traditional sphere of influence (read forced domination), let alone military installations.

PD

The missile system doesnt do anything to the ICBM balance between US/NATO and Russia. But Russians are pissed that they have lost their former colonies to the "West". They still have a hold on Belarussia and the Central Asian states. I think they will go to any means to get Ukraine back as a part of Russia. They are playing the situation to be ripe to present their terms at some point. Funny thing is that the western border could be the most peaceful for them, and they could focus on the Chinese one. It seems they just like to get the attention of Europe to feel selfworth.

[PeriscopeDepth]

When I said strategic balance, I meant political. Not nuclear missile balance. Obviously we can flatten each other several times over, BMD system or not.

PD

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Are people seriously arguing this point? That is plain stupid. Russia can unleash 1000's of nukes on the US, and we can shoot down what? 6 of them? Get real people and get a life!

-S

I don't think it is about the old MAD theory SUBMAN. That may come into play in the future but I think it is about what PD was saying. Influence. As before western europe will be the battleground. I may be cinical, no I am cinical, this will keep the climate change and socilists at bay fo a while. After all the european continnent is at stake. Who are they going to call?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

When I said strategic balance, I meant political. Not nuclear missile balance. Obviously we can flatten each other several times over, BMD system or not.

PD

Then what is the point? The BMD system is pretty much worthless between the US and Russia and is only protection against cash pressed counties like Iran - possibly a country that is very likely to launch at some point!

So the point is - all this BS is propoganda as an excuse to do something in Russian eyes. They are using it, probably to break one of the START treaties in building their new missiles. That is complete utter BS because I don't think for a second that the US wouldn't launch a BMD weapon to save Russia in the event of an attack by a country like Iran, or even China! It is even for Russia's benefit!

For those that don't think the US wouldn't defend Russia - think again. A Russia in a chaotic mess from a rogue nuke strike is not in the best interest at all for the US or the rest of the world. Myself over here wants a stable Russia and their potentially devastating technologies in safe and controlled hands!

-S

[Happy Times]

More or less. I would disagree that Putin is bent on dominating the former Soviet Republics though. I don't think it's domination so much as keeping NATO/the West out of his back yard.

PD

Im sure, that if they could, they would take them all back. He doesnt want them in the NATO because that makes it hard to invade them back at some point. This is not a joke, you just have to understand how they think. Its very 19th century, maps open in the Kremlin, they love their geopolitical theories that can get pretty wild..
I would bet everything i have on this being a 100% accurate image i painted..

[PeriscopeDepth]

The point has already been stated in this thread point blank several times. Former Warsaw Pact countries are abandoning their Russian protectors and letting the Western countries, particularly the US court them. Even build military installations in them. Russia will never, ever be happy about NATO/Western influence in states that were formerly under the Soviet Union.

PD