GWX & Map updates

[joegrundman]

I noticed that map updates come with no realism penalty in GWX, i.e. i'm playing at 100% even though i selected auto map updates.

Does anyone know why this decision was made? When i decided to give it a go, i was guessing that some kind of assisted plotting mod had been installed and i was curious to see how it worked, but I was wrong. As far as I can see, it's just God's eye view with perfectly provided instantaneous fire solutions for all visible ships for anyone who knows anything at all about manual targetting.

I love GWX, am in awe of it really, but I really hate God's eye view and I have to finish this patrol with it on now. I'm just curious why that decision was made to separate it from its realism penalty, or am I missing something obvious?

[ichso]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

I noticed that map updates come with no realism penalty in GWX, i.e. i'm playing at 100% even though i selected auto map updates.

Does anyone know why this decision was made? When i decided to give it a go, i was guessing that some kind of assisted plotting mod had been installed and i was curious to see how it worked, but I was wrong. As far as I can see, it's just God's eye view with perfectly provided instantaneous fire solutions for all visible ships for anyone who knows anything at all about manual targetting.

I love GWX, am in awe of it really, but I really hate God's eye view and I have to finish this patrol with it on now. I'm just curious why that decision was made to separate it from its realism penalty, or am I missing something obvious?

Wasn't that already the case before GWX ? I think I remember that after a certain SH3 patch you could turn the map contact updates on/off without changing the realism %.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Once again, because map contacts are such a controversial issue, we have removed any "realism" penalty associated with one decision or another.

Valid arguments:

1) The captain would be updated on a regular basis and/or on request by his crew as to the location and bearing of contacts... or the U-boat itself.

2) In GW/GWX, all contacts are grey in color requiring the user to identify the contact before decision is made to fire or not fire. Optics have also had their outermost zoom increased to help alleviate the loss of visual resolution of in-game graphics vs real life visual acuity.

3) The captain, although he should be able to do any job on the sub... cannot do them all simultaneously.

[Canovaro]

As Joe I also wonder why there is no realism penalty

[joegrundman]

Kpt Lehmann, for the second time you find it in your heart to deal with my trifles. Thank you, and the rest of the team, for all your work.

Back to the topic, I understand your arguments, and they are reasonable, but i think I would have decided to leave the realism settings as they were because,

firstly, I'm not talking about removing the feature, just leaving the realism penalty

secondly, while I appreciate that without the map contact updates you are denied certain information that you ought to have available, the contact updates provides a situational awareness not really matched even by today's submarines.

The updates gives you immediate and accurate information of range, bearing and course (and hence AOB) for every object around you. A second observation 20 seconds later will also give you speed, for every object, in about 1 second, really obviating the need for any further work, unless you care to do it for its own sake, or are unable to calculate or whatever.

I find this unreasonable. Getting accurate data for AOB, range and speed was the major difficulty for a sub captain, and it was time consuming. Furthermore, when submerged, only one person was able to do that, that being the person looking through the periscope, which is normally the captain, which is played by you. So really, what the other submariners can do to help you with that data is negligable beyond processing the information you hand down to them. A far cry from being able to ascertain all knowledge perfectly in 1 second.

Even when on the surface, there's only 4 of you, and they should be paying attention to destroyers, not frantically calculating AOB and range for every ship in the convoy.

Also for sonar, multiple bearings should be possible, but not every ship in a convoy plus escorts. There was no computerised display, just one man with a pair of headphones telling you what he could hear. I believe that the designers could and should have permitted more options with this fellow than they did, but i still believe that map contacts off is by far the more realistic of the two options.

Hence I'd keep the realism penalty on.

joe

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Thanks for the good words mate.

We are considering further limitations to the map contacts. (Refinements by Rubini)

For myself, though I have grown to prefer the concept of "no contacts." However, I also consider the subject to be debatable enough that I will not penalize players whatever their decision.

IIRC, the biggest realism penalties a GWX user is given, are relative to the freecam and manual targetting.

At the end of the day, each player aiming at "hardcore simulation" as presented by the GWX mod, must make his own decision based on his convictions and interpretation and select their realism options accordingly.

The decision was made to settle some very old and very long debates.

[GOZO]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Thanks for the good words mate.

We are considering further limitations to the map contacts. (Refinements by Rubini)

For myself, though I have grown to prefer the concept of "no contacts." However, I also consider the subject to be debatable enough that I will not penalize players whatever their decision.

IIRC, the biggest realism penalties a GWX user is given, are relative to the freecam and manual targetting.

At the end of the day, each player aiming at "hardcore simulation" as presented by the GWX mod, must make his own decision based on his convictions and interpretation and select their realism options accordingly.

The decision was made to settle some very old and very long debates.

Amen that!

Case closed............

OB

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Hi Joe,

Having reread my posts above, I didn't mean to sound snarkey when you asked about realism percentage vs. map updates.

My "once again" statement was referring to old and difficult arguments maybe two years ago.

We don't mind answering questions on the forums at all mate. Infact, I imagine that for every question asked... there are likely ten lurkers who don't ever post for whatever reason... that wonder the same things.

None of us are ever alone in ignorance regarding some aspect of something somewhere..

[joegrundman]

Oh no problem

I quickly realised I'd stepped on some old landmine from some ancient war

So, I ended the patrol and have removed map updates - everyone's a winner