Immigration Reform deal done?

SUBMAN1 · 05-17-07, 02:51 PM

The end is near I see:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070517/...ation_congress

-S

The Avon Lady · 05-21-07, 04:13 AM

Capitulation, from A------ to Z, by Mark Steyn.

Hitman · 05-21-07, 07:29 AM

Someone should start thinking seriously about putting an end to this ASAP, not just in the US but mainly in the EU. We can't continue absorbing the results of irresponsable demographics in the third world and/or poorer countries:hmm:

SUBMAN1 · 05-21-07, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Someone should start thinking seriously about putting an end to this ASAP, not just in the US but mainly in the EU. We can't continue absorbing the results of irresponsable demographics in the third world and/or poorer countries:hmm:

Exactly. I'm willing to pay the 12 million person bill for deportation.

They say Americans won't do the job - BS. Pay them enough and they will. This is just an excuse to pay people under minimum wage for jobs that Americans would demand more $$$ for. Americans did these jobs long before there was a problem.

-S

PS. If they need the money to get rid of them, add $10 to everyones tax return for one year. That will give them over $3 Billion to get rid of them all. I won't miss the $10.

Hitman · 05-21-07, 09:30 AM

Quote:

They say Americans won't do the job - BS. Pay them enough and they will. This is just an excuse to pay people under minimum wage for jobs that Americans would demand more $$$ for. Americans did these jobs long before there was a problem.

It always amazes me how the leftish politicians and the trade unions are accepting the inmigration. Completely crazy and against any logical reason...the wages and general conditions of the humble classes would skyrocket if those jobs had to be paid enough to attract people to them. It's actually the inmigration a good part of the reason why they still are crappy jobs. Only the inmigrants do them....

Anyway I'm not against a certain amount of inmigration, but any amount that makes it impossible to assimilate and integrate them is a NO NO for me. That is an invasion, not inmigration.

EDIT: Forgot to add:

A guy I know here had this idea to end inmigration: Put death penalty on the second ilegal border-crossing. If you are caught once you are informed that finding you again in this country will result in death penalty. Then you are asked where you want to return and helped arrive there. But if you are caught again in this country, you are shot after a summary trial.

Got an idea how upset is people here already?

The Avon Lady · 05-21-07, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Quote:

They say Americans won't do the job - BS. Pay them enough and they will. This is just an excuse to pay people under minimum wage for jobs that Americans would demand more $$$ for. Americans did these jobs long before there was a problem.

It always amazes me how the leftish politicians and the trade unions are accepting the inmigration. Completely crazy and against any logical reason...the wages and general conditions of the humble classes would skyrocket if those jobs had to be paid enough to attract people to them. It's actually the inmigration a good part of the reason why they still are crappy jobs. Only the inmigrants do them....

Anyway I'm not against a certain amount of inmigration, but any amount that makes it impossible to assimilate and integrate them is a NO NO for me. That is an invasion, not inmigration.

There was a big article in Businessweek 2 weeks ago, singing the praise of the success of massive immigration in your country, Spain. The article claimed that Spain could serve as the positive role model for the rest of Europe, now much more experienced in the negative aspects of immigration. The article devoted one small paragraph to what-if-it-doesn't-work and then moved on to nothing but blind positive thinking.

It's not my country. I could afford to laugh at the author but I just shook my head.

Heibges · 05-21-07, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Someone should start thinking seriously about putting an end to this ASAP, not just in the US but mainly in the EU. We can't continue absorbing the results of irresponsable demographics in the third world and/or poorer countries:hmm:

You guys should have thought of that before you went and colonized them. Great job you did around the world. You really should be proud of yourselves.

As yee sow, so shall yee reap.

The Avon Lady · 05-21-07, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heibges

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Someone should start thinking seriously about putting an end to this ASAP, not just in the US but mainly in the EU. We can't continue absorbing the results of irresponsable demographics in the third world and/or poorer countries:hmm:

You guys should have thought of that before you went and colonized them. Great job you did around the world. You really should be proud of yourselves.

As yee sow, so shall yee reap.

How far back in history can we go to use this logic? :hmm:

Heibges · 05-21-07, 09:54 AM

Start back 50 years ago since the end of WWII, for most of the world. Which is barely history if you follow the 30 Years Rule.

But look at Russia, and some of those bad feelings go back 600 years. It's always been tough being Russia's neighboor.

I had a professor in college who predicted that a war between Russia and Ukraine was likely. But it's been almost 20 years so hopefully this will not come to pass.

Japan, you could argue, is the only country that benefited by contact with the West.

The Avon Lady · 05-21-07, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heibges

Start back 50 years ago since the end of WWII, for most of the world. Which is barely history if you follow the 30 Years Rule.

And what does this have to do with Spain?

Hitman · 05-21-07, 10:39 AM

Quote:

There was a big article in Businessweek 2 weeks ago, singing the praise of the success of massive immigration in your country, Spain. The article claimed that Spain could serve as the positive role model for the rest of Europe, now much more experienced in the negative aspects of immigration. The article devoted one small paragraph to what-if-it-doesn't-work and then moved on to nothing but blind positive thinking.

It's not my country. I could afford to laugh at the author but I just shook my head.

Hey, inmigration has been a success here. We have MILLIONS of inmigrants, can you think of a higher success?

[Irony mode OFF]

Spain as we know it today is the result of inmigration and a flow of lots of cultures. All of them contributed to form us as we are today, Romans, cartaginens, phoenicians, visigotes, islam...yet it should be obvious that NONE of those cultures exists any longer but instead there is a fusion of all of them. Many cheap columnists seem to forget that. If we continue to have such a flow of inmigration, we might have a succesful society, a strong economy here and a strong culture here (Which I doubt) but it will NO LONGER be the spanish one, that's for sure:hmm:

Quote:

You guys should have thought of that before you went and colonized them. Great job you did around the world. You really should be proud of yourselves.

As yee sow, so shall yee reap.

Great contribution to the discussion Heibges, backed with lots of historical data and a deep reasoning. You must be proud of it.

jumpy · 05-21-07, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

And what does this have to do with Spain?

in the context of this topic one might well ask 'And what does this have to do with Israel?' it surely makes as much or as little sense...

The Avon Lady · 05-21-07, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumpy

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

And what does this have to do with Spain?

in the context of this topic one might well ask 'And what does this have to do with Israel?' it surely makes as much or as little sense...

Yep. I lost track.

EDIT: But Hitman replied to Heibges spot on.

Heibges · 05-21-07, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heibges

Start back 50 years ago since the end of WWII, for most of the world. Which is barely history if you follow the 30 Years Rule.

And what does this have to do with Spain?

I thought we were talking about immigration in the United States.

If the countries of Central and South America had prospered under America's tutelage since the Monroe Doctrine, would America have the problem with illegal immigrants it has today.

If the gentlemen of Europe, in assuming their White Man's Burden, had actually meant to help the countries they colonized, would they have the problems with immigrants looking for a bigger piece of the pie?

Hitman · 05-21-07, 01:36 PM

Past is past, Heibges, no sense crying over it now. I'm talking about present and future; this flow of inmigration must stop. That does not mean we shall ignore the poverty and the problems in those countries that force people to emigrate. But IMO ultimately the quick and dirty solution of opening the doors to uncontrolled inmigration to hape cheap workers will in the medium term have catastrophic consequences. France is a good example...and it had a much stronger personality and national feel than us, and look what happened after absorbing more inmigrants than it could succesfully integrate in his structures:hmm:

05-17-07, 02:51 PM	#1
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Immigration Reform deal done? The end is near I see: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070517/...ation_congress -S __________________

05-21-07, 04:13 AM	#2
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Capitulation, from A------ to Z, by Mark Steyn. __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

05-21-07, 07:29 AM	#3
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	Someone should start thinking seriously about putting an end to this ASAP, not just in the US but mainly in the EU. We can't continue absorbing the results of irresponsable demographics in the third world and/or poorer countries:hmm: __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

05-21-07, 09:54 AM	#9
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Start back 50 years ago since the end of WWII, for most of the world. Which is barely history if you follow the 30 Years Rule. But look at Russia, and some of those bad feelings go back 600 years. It's always been tough being Russia's neighboor. I had a professor in college who predicted that a war between Russia and Ukraine was likely. But it's been almost 20 years so hopefully this will not come to pass. Japan, you could argue, is the only country that benefited by contact with the West. __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

05-21-07, 01:36 PM	#15
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	Past is past, Heibges, no sense crying over it now. I'm talking about present and future; this flow of inmigration must stop. That does not mean we shall ignore the poverty and the problems in those countries that force people to emigrate. But IMO ultimately the quick and dirty solution of opening the doors to uncontrolled inmigration to hape cheap workers will in the medium term have catastrophic consequences. France is a good example...and it had a much stronger personality and national feel than us, and look what happened after absorbing more inmigrants than it could succesfully integrate in his structures:hmm: __________________ One day I will return to sea ...