Early War Night Time Surface Attacks

Stoli · 06-03-07, 11:46 AM

Having read serveral books on early war u-boat adventures, the night time surface attack was employed as method of choice. Playing SHIII w/GWX, I've nerver been able to re-create one of these attacks. My Boat is always detected and the Escorts quickly force the boat to submerge. In the books, the u-boats finds a hole in the screen and heads full speed into the frey. Some accounts describe the boat getting to within 500 meters of the sea cows before firing.

Anyone out there been able to accomplish one of these legendary assualts?

bigboywooly · 06-03-07, 11:48 AM

Yeah I have done it a few times
Run at decks awash and at 90 degrees to convoy so your silhouette is small
Slow speed
You can usually penetrate the screen with only 2\3 or 4 DDs
Gets a lot harder later as more escorts and nigh on impossible when radar becomes available

KeptinCranky · 06-03-07, 12:21 PM

I have also succesfully made a few nighttime surface attacks, same method as BBW mentions

important note, if you do this, and you do manage to fire your eels get away from the spot you fired from asap because the nearest escort will head straight for it, also do NOT get caught in searchlights if this does happen you have only one option, crashdive

oh and don't even think about it after 1940, or when there's a big warship in the convoy, unless you're happy to have the muzzleflashes of 9 14' guns be the last thing you see

bigboywooly · 06-03-07, 12:29 PM

Nothing like a broadside from a BB when you dont spot it
Makes a right mess topside
Death and damage

cobalt · 06-03-07, 12:48 PM

I love surface attacks. I can do them till about 42 before the radar comes in. theres previous thread i made a while ago explaining how to do it. with a little practice you can make it work everytime and get very close < 1000 m

06-03-07, 01:05 PM

I am afraid of doing this in GWX.Escorts have got monster behaviour,extremely aggressive and fast.And this,actually is not worth taking that much risk.Same could be done slowly and silently.

KeptinCranky · 06-03-07, 01:15 PM

Hehe, trust me Genghis, it's worth doing if only for the tension and relief when you pull it off, I had to go and stand outside on my balcony to blow off steam after the first time I got away with it

06-03-07, 02:28 PM

KeptinCranky,what is your usual hull integrity after those adventures?

Iron Budokan · 06-03-07, 03:31 PM

It can be done early in the war, even in GWX, but it's very difficult.

Jimbuna · 06-03-07, 03:37 PM

I prefer going in 'decks awash' in case of detection...this allows for a quicker submerged time...but as said earlier, once radar is fitted forget it!!

Foghladh_mhara · 06-03-07, 04:03 PM

I've never felt comfortable with surface attacks at anytime in the war day or night. I always feel like I'm gonna get spotted. Only time I attack on the surface is for a gun duel. And by duel I mean me having the gun and my opponent being unarmed. I'm a dirty git

KeptinCranky · 06-03-07, 04:06 PM

Hull Integrity? the same, didn't get detected so far, but you've gotta pick your moment.

my trick:
<lecture>

a: a moonless night, I don't try otherwise
b: NO FOG, in fog you won't be able to see more than 4km, Escorts that close and you not knowing where they are is bad!
c: seas not too rough, but not flat calm either say 7 m/s wind
d: approach convoy from forward corner, stay at least 5 km away from leading escort

(also don't time compress, have coffee or other stimulants at hand and remember to pause once in a while, unless your going full realism, but then, real Kaleuns would have officers and such so the pause button represents my XO taking over for a bit)

now there's 2 options:
You can match course and speed with convoy and try to find one of the side escorts once you do this wait for it to go outbound from the convoy for a scan. at this moment you turn to intercept and go in about 7 knots max speed set depth for 7 meters.
Once your at 2 km from the leading outer merchant the escorts should be well away, the lead about 8km the flanker about 6, then pick your target, pick a juicy one, don't go for more than 2 (although I tend to get greedy).
Shoot at 1 or 1.5 km out, no closer or they definitely searchlight you, the flanking escort should be past or right behind you at least 5km out, now turn parallel to the convoy, towards their rear, go to 9 or 10 knots still decks awash, and get the hell away from your firing point (clear datun?)
try to stay at least 5km away from the inbound escorts, mainly the flanker. As soon as he has reached your firing point he'll begin searching for you, going around in circles and whatnot, if he hasn't detected you by now, he won't.
Your next worry is any trailing escorts or worst case scenario, that big honking Auxiliary Cruiser you mistook for a merchant.
In case a you can now start angling away from the convoy, don't go to sharply or you'll present a big profile to the searching flanker, just angle away from the convoys course about 20 degrees. The trailing escort probably won't get close to you unless it was really close to that side of the convoy when the torpedos hit.
In case B or when otherwise detected, crash dive, make a sharp turn into the convoy,deploy decoys if available, 2 at 50 meters, then go silent, and do the usual evasive routine.

The other option is to map out the convoy with your hydrophones and periscope from well away and at silent running, especially good if it's light out or your waiting for the moon to set.
Once you have a good idea about how many escorts there are, and where they are in relation to the convoy and especially the merchants you intend to attack you can go about 10km out, do an end around and end up in front of the convoy again, then proceed with option 1. Problem here is convoy changing course, because it takes longer to set this up, very annoying, especially if your just about to attack.

My other suggestion would be to only do this sort of thing in very deep water, you want to be able to go below 200 meters if you get detected
</lecture>

Night Surface attacks are possibly the tensest ride SH3 has to offer, well worth it IMO

other than that, if you mess up there'll be carousing in Valhalla, and you get a seat of honor because of extraordinary bravery in the face of certain doom

DrMilton · 06-04-07, 12:49 AM

Actually I first discovered this tactic back in SH2

(before reading about it in books) and liked it because it was fast and efficient. In SH3 you have to be patient and let the target come to you. Its doable

Vacillator · 06-04-07, 04:56 AM

Yes, this works okay and is great when you pull it off. On the other hand, letting convoys roll over you while you're at PD maneouvring slowly is also very effective if you set it up right (i.e arrive at an intercept well before they get there and try to guage where the escorts are so that you can slip between them).

06-05-07, 04:42 AM

So far,all my try-outs to do a surfaced convoy attack in GWX end by one and the same way:I am compromised,convoy is alerted and starts searchlighting me,after that escorts arrive at hurricane speed,rain of fire and....I am going down.

No,Kaleuns,it certainly proves more uselful to stay down and slow.

06-03-07, 11:46 AM	#1
Stoli A-ganger Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 74 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Early War Night Time Surface Attacks Having read serveral books on early war u-boat adventures, the night time surface attack was employed as method of choice. Playing SHIII w/GWX, I've nerver been able to re-create one of these attacks. My Boat is always detected and the Escorts quickly force the boat to submerge. In the books, the u-boats finds a hole in the screen and heads full speed into the frey. Some accounts describe the boat getting to within 500 meters of the sea cows before firing. Anyone out there been able to accomplish one of these legendary assualts?

06-03-07, 11:48 AM	#2
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Yeah I have done it a few times Run at decks awash and at 90 degrees to convoy so your silhouette is small Slow speed You can usually penetrate the screen with only 2\3 or 4 DDs Gets a lot harder later as more escorts and nigh on impossible when radar becomes available __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

06-03-07, 12:29 PM	#4
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Nothing like a broadside from a BB when you dont spot it Makes a right mess topside Death and damage __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

06-03-07, 12:48 PM	#5
cobalt Commander Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 440 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	I love surface attacks. I can do them till about 42 before the radar comes in. theres previous thread i made a while ago explaining how to do it. with a little practice you can make it work everytime and get very close < 1000 m __________________ download my playable viic/41 submarine http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107315 http://files.filefront.com/CobaltsVI.../fileinfo.html

06-03-07, 03:31 PM	#9
Iron Budokan Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,778 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	A high risk:reward ratio.... It can be done early in the war, even in GWX, but it's very difficult. __________________ "You will take on England wherever you find her ships, and you will break her power at sea." --Iron Coffins, Herbert A. Werner http://kennethmarkhoover.com

06-03-07, 12:21 PM	#3
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I have also succesfully made a few nighttime surface attacks, same method as BBW mentions important note, if you do this, and you do manage to fire your eels get away from the spot you fired from asap because the nearest escort will head straight for it, also do NOT get caught in searchlights if this does happen you have only one option, crashdive oh and don't even think about it after 1940, or when there's a big warship in the convoy, unless you're happy to have the muzzleflashes of 9 14' guns be the last thing you see

06-03-07, 01:05 PM	#6
Genghis Khan Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I am afraid of doing this in GWX.Escorts have got monster behaviour,extremely aggressive and fast.And this,actually is not worth taking that much risk.Same could be done slowly and silently.

06-03-07, 01:15 PM	#7
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Hehe, trust me Genghis, it's worth doing if only for the tension and relief when you pull it off, I had to go and stand outside on my balcony to blow off steam after the first time I got away with it

06-03-07, 02:28 PM	#8
Genghis Khan Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	KeptinCranky,what is your usual hull integrity after those adventures?

06-03-07, 03:37 PM	#10
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I prefer going in 'decks awash' in case of detection...this allows for a quicker submerged time...but as said earlier, once radar is fitted forget it!! __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

06-03-07, 04:03 PM	#11
Foghladh_mhara Commander Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kent Posts: 473 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I've never felt comfortable with surface attacks at anytime in the war day or night. I always feel like I'm gonna get spotted. Only time I attack on the surface is for a gun duel. And by duel I mean me having the gun and my opponent being unarmed. I'm a dirty git __________________ The beauty of not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise without any of the stress that might normally precede such a venture

06-03-07, 04:06 PM	#12
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Hull Integrity? the same, didn't get detected so far, but you've gotta pick your moment. my trick: <lecture> a: a moonless night, I don't try otherwise b: NO FOG, in fog you won't be able to see more than 4km, Escorts that close and you not knowing where they are is bad! c: seas not too rough, but not flat calm either say 7 m/s wind d: approach convoy from forward corner, stay at least 5 km away from leading escort (also don't time compress, have coffee or other stimulants at hand and remember to pause once in a while, unless your going full realism, but then, real Kaleuns would have officers and such so the pause button represents my XO taking over for a bit) now there's 2 options: You can match course and speed with convoy and try to find one of the side escorts once you do this wait for it to go outbound from the convoy for a scan. at this moment you turn to intercept and go in about 7 knots max speed set depth for 7 meters. Once your at 2 km from the leading outer merchant the escorts should be well away, the lead about 8km the flanker about 6, then pick your target, pick a juicy one, don't go for more than 2 (although I tend to get greedy). Shoot at 1 or 1.5 km out, no closer or they definitely searchlight you, the flanking escort should be past or right behind you at least 5km out, now turn parallel to the convoy, towards their rear, go to 9 or 10 knots still decks awash, and get the hell away from your firing point (clear datun?) try to stay at least 5km away from the inbound escorts, mainly the flanker. As soon as he has reached your firing point he'll begin searching for you, going around in circles and whatnot, if he hasn't detected you by now, he won't. Your next worry is any trailing escorts or worst case scenario, that big honking Auxiliary Cruiser you mistook for a merchant. In case a you can now start angling away from the convoy, don't go to sharply or you'll present a big profile to the searching flanker, just angle away from the convoys course about 20 degrees. The trailing escort probably won't get close to you unless it was really close to that side of the convoy when the torpedos hit. In case B or when otherwise detected, crash dive, make a sharp turn into the convoy,deploy decoys if available, 2 at 50 meters, then go silent, and do the usual evasive routine. The other option is to map out the convoy with your hydrophones and periscope from well away and at silent running, especially good if it's light out or your waiting for the moon to set. Once you have a good idea about how many escorts there are, and where they are in relation to the convoy and especially the merchants you intend to attack you can go about 10km out, do an end around and end up in front of the convoy again, then proceed with option 1. Problem here is convoy changing course, because it takes longer to set this up, very annoying, especially if your just about to attack. My other suggestion would be to only do this sort of thing in very deep water, you want to be able to go below 200 meters if you get detected </lecture> Night Surface attacks are possibly the tensest ride SH3 has to offer, well worth it IMO other than that, if you mess up there'll be carousing in Valhalla, and you get a seat of honor because of extraordinary bravery in the face of certain doom

06-04-07, 12:49 AM	#13
DrMilton Gunner Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Right in the middle of it... Posts: 94 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Actually I first discovered this tactic back in SH2 (before reading about it in books) and liked it because it was fast and efficient. In SH3 you have to be patient and let the target come to you. Its doable

06-04-07, 04:56 AM	#14
Vacillator Frogman Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 307 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yes, this works okay and is great when you pull it off. On the other hand, letting convoys roll over you while you're at PD maneouvring slowly is also very effective if you set it up right (i.e arrive at an intercept well before they get there and try to guage where the escorts are so that you can slip between them).

06-05-07, 04:42 AM	#15
Genghis Khan Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	So far,all my try-outs to do a surfaced convoy attack in GWX end by one and the same way:I am compromised,convoy is alerted and starts searchlighting me,after that escorts arrive at hurricane speed,rain of fire and....I am going down. No,Kaleuns,it certainly proves more uselful to stay down and slow.