What is a "neutral convoy"?

RoaldLarsen · 04-26-07, 10:55 AM

What exactly is a "neutral convoy"?

It is March 4, 1941, and I'm in BE33, SW of Ireland. I am about to head home, since I've used up all but one of my torpedoes, and most of my deck gun ammunition and am getting low on fuel, when I get a contact report of a "neutral large convoy" a couple of grid squares away. I have seen such contacts before but ignored them. What's the point in wasting time on neutrals? This time, I decide to go have a look. Maybe I'll see an American escort ship for the first time.

I intercept the convoy and find 17 merchants escorted by a lone Royal Navy corvette, which fires on me when I get under 1km away. I sink the corvette, then start checking flags on ships in the convoy.

Only two neutrals. All the rest are British, Canadian or Greek. One of the neutrals is an American C2 or C3 with a load of British warplanes. It is positioned at the front of the centre column. It has a deck gun, but doesn't shoot at me, so I leave it alone. At the back of the centre column is a British C2 with a deck gun which does shoot at me, so I disable the gun and sink the ship with gunfire.

Now I have 14 targets but only one fish and about 70 rounds of 88mm ammunition. I manage to sink a T2, a small tanker, another C2 and a small merchant. I return to base having completed my first patrol in a VIIC with a tally of 70,000 tons sunk, 15 merchants and a corvette. I got full reknown credit for all the ships sunk from the "neutral" convoy.

It seems "neutral convoy" doesn't mean what I had thought. The escort is not neutral. It shoots at me. Most of the ships are not neutral. The only thing that seems neutral is the ship in the commodore's spot: front row centre. (And it was carrying war supplies!).

I have no idea whether the weak escort was a function of the convoy being "neutral" or just the luck of the draw. (I once encountered a large convoy in 1940 that had no escort at all.)

Does anybody else have any information about "neutral convoys"?

danlisa · 04-26-07, 11:06 AM

I can't say for certain but this is my understanding.

A convoy will be designated as Neutral, Enemy or Friendly when the majority of ships in that convoy are Neutral, Enemy or Friendly.

Now, I don't know the dates off by heart but is it possible that when your patrol started that the majority of the ships in the convoy you encountered started as Neutral but as time passed in your patrol they became Enemy?

IIRC SH3 will set the parameters for each vessel/convoy when the patrol is first loaded, I'm not even sure that if you reloaded from a save point in the same patrol that it would be corrected.

I think this might just be a quirk of the SH3 Engine.

Jimbuna · 04-26-07, 11:07 AM

SINK EM ALL!!

RoaldLarsen · 04-26-07, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

...
A convoy will be designated as Neutral, Enemy or Friendly when the majority of ships in that convoy are Neutral, Enemy or Friendly.

Now, I don't know the dates off by heart but is it possible that when your patrol started that the majority of the ships in the convoy you encountered started as Neutral but as time passed in your patrol they became Enemy? ...

Nope. that can't be it. A majority of the ships in the convoy were British. Most of the rest were Canadian. The convoy would have had to have left port more than 18 months earlier for the majority to have been neutral at time of embarcation.

danurve · 04-26-07, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

SINK EM ALL!!

NO MERCY for Neutral ships being escorted.
I say make the cfg edit and Blast their jazz to the bloody Deep!

melnibonian · 04-26-07, 12:36 PM

If I'm not mistaken the nationality is determined by that of the leading ship. If the first ship in the convoy is Neutral then the whole convoy is designated as neutral. In my opinion follow Jim's advice and SINK THEM ALL

Penelope_Grey · 04-26-07, 12:42 PM

I intercept neutral convoys as they are not ALL neutral.

STEED · 04-26-07, 01:17 PM

You know where you stand with your Allies and Enemy's but Neutrals are a lot of scheming b******ds, don't trust them.

HM.Medico · 04-26-07, 03:29 PM

Gah, who cares if the convoy is neutral, the ships are your enemy.

SINK 'EM ALL!

bigboywooly · 04-26-07, 04:49 PM

Yes the lead ship is what gives the convoy is designation
Enemy
Neutral and friendly

1941 and only 1 escort eh
:hmm:

What mod do you use RoaldLarsen ?

sergbuto · 04-26-07, 05:08 PM

Yes, it is only the leading ship which defines the side. If you put an U-boat as a leading ship, the contact reports will show an icon of the German sub for the convoy.

maillemaker · 04-26-07, 05:23 PM

Wow, I'm glad to learn about this. I've been ignoring "neutral" convoys. What a waste of tonnage...

Crazy Ian · 04-26-07, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maillemaker

Wow, I'm glad to learn about this. I've been ignoring "neutral" convoys. What a waste of tonnage...

That makes two of us! Neutral convoy's of the world beware, U-3 is on the prowl...

If only I could get the damn fuel to make it to the atlantic....

Zero Niner · 04-26-07, 11:42 PM

Is there any impact on renown if I attack a "neutral" convoy, assuming I sink only belligerents?

Telgriff · 04-26-07, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoaldLarsen

What exactly is a "neutral convoy"?

Target practice.

04-26-07, 10:55 AM	#1
RoaldLarsen Weps Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Control Room Posts: 355 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	What is a "neutral convoy"? What exactly is a "neutral convoy"? It is March 4, 1941, and I'm in BE33, SW of Ireland. I am about to head home, since I've used up all but one of my torpedoes, and most of my deck gun ammunition and am getting low on fuel, when I get a contact report of a "neutral large convoy" a couple of grid squares away. I have seen such contacts before but ignored them. What's the point in wasting time on neutrals? This time, I decide to go have a look. Maybe I'll see an American escort ship for the first time. I intercept the convoy and find 17 merchants escorted by a lone Royal Navy corvette, which fires on me when I get under 1km away. I sink the corvette, then start checking flags on ships in the convoy. Only two neutrals. All the rest are British, Canadian or Greek. One of the neutrals is an American C2 or C3 with a load of British warplanes. It is positioned at the front of the centre column. It has a deck gun, but doesn't shoot at me, so I leave it alone. At the back of the centre column is a British C2 with a deck gun which does shoot at me, so I disable the gun and sink the ship with gunfire. Now I have 14 targets but only one fish and about 70 rounds of 88mm ammunition. I manage to sink a T2, a small tanker, another C2 and a small merchant. I return to base having completed my first patrol in a VIIC with a tally of 70,000 tons sunk, 15 merchants and a corvette. I got full reknown credit for all the ships sunk from the "neutral" convoy. It seems "neutral convoy" doesn't mean what I had thought. The escort is not neutral. It shoots at me. Most of the ships are not neutral. The only thing that seems neutral is the ship in the commodore's spot: front row centre. (And it was carrying war supplies!). I have no idea whether the weak escort was a function of the convoy being "neutral" or just the luck of the draw. (I once encountered a large convoy in 1940 that had no escort at all.) Does anybody else have any information about "neutral convoys"? __________________ 100% realism, DiD Harbor Traffic 1.47(incl. RUB) Using SH3 Commander to implement many custom realism tweaks Covered 1939-1945; now restarting in 1939 again. Completed 39 careers, 210 war patrols, 4.7Mt sunk, 19 subs lost

04-26-07, 11:06 AM	#2
danlisa Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 5,499 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 1	I can't say for certain but this is my understanding. A convoy will be designated as Neutral, Enemy or Friendly when the majority of ships in that convoy are Neutral, Enemy or Friendly. Now, I don't know the dates off by heart but is it possible that when your patrol started that the majority of the ships in the convoy you encountered started as Neutral but as time passed in your patrol they became Enemy? IIRC SH3 will set the parameters for each vessel/convoy when the patrol is first loaded, I'm not even sure that if you reloaded from a save point in the same patrol that it would be corrected. I think this might just be a quirk of the SH3 Engine. __________________

04-26-07, 11:07 AM	#3
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,481 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	SINK EM ALL!! __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

04-26-07, 12:36 PM	#6
melnibonian Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Reading UK Posts: 3,473 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	If I'm not mistaken the nationality is determined by that of the leading ship. If the first ship in the convoy is Neutral then the whole convoy is designated as neutral. In my opinion follow Jim's advice and SINK THEM ALL __________________ http://www.thegreywolves.com/ http://wolvesatwar.com/ Download GWX and other goodies: http://hosted.filefront.com/melnibonian

04-26-07, 12:42 PM	#7
Penelope_Grey Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,893 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I intercept neutral convoys as they are not ALL neutral. __________________ I SURVIVED THE FIRST EVER SUBSIM WEREWOLF HUNT - and... I actually won the game for the humans too!

04-26-07, 01:17 PM	#8
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	You know where you stand with your Allies and Enemy's but Neutrals are a lot of scheming b******ds, don't trust them. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

04-26-07, 03:29 PM	#9
HM.Medico Helmsman Join Date: May 2006 Location: 60 Knots off shore, In a VIID Posts: 107 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Gah, who cares if the convoy is neutral, the ships are your enemy. SINK 'EM ALL! __________________ Creator of The Enigma Room (Assisted greatly by P_Funk) Tonnage Total -: 165 Thousand Tonnes (DDs: 7\|Countless merchants\|Elcos: 4\| Armed Trawlers: 2\| BBs 3) Punctuation is the difference between "I helped my Uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "i helped my uncle jack off a horse" USE GOOD GRAMMAR!

04-26-07, 04:49 PM	#10
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Yes the lead ship is what gives the convoy is designation Enemy Neutral and friendly 1941 and only 1 escort eh :hmm: What mod do you use RoaldLarsen ? __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

04-26-07, 05:08 PM	#11
sergbuto Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,331 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Yes, it is only the leading ship which defines the side. If you put an U-boat as a leading ship, the contact reports will show an icon of the German sub for the convoy. __________________ Serg's SH4 and SH3 pages

04-26-07, 05:23 PM	#12
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Wow, I'm glad to learn about this. I've been ignoring "neutral" convoys. What a waste of tonnage...

04-26-07, 11:42 PM	#14
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,033 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Is there any impact on renown if I attack a "neutral" convoy, assuming I sink only belligerents?