Should we be able too ?

Kapitan · 04-19-07, 03:27 PM

As you know at the moment i am a dustman working for basildon council, today we have had a plesent visit from the top guy in health and safety.

Under the health and saftey guideline it is recomended that no one rides the outside of the lorry while it is in motion i.e sitting on the back or hanging onto the sides.

Now as dustmen sometimes we go from pile to pile and sometimes its too far to walk or is uphill and to save time we just jump on the sides because it is utterly pointless getting in and getting out again as it takes too long.

Now like 95% of my fellow dustmen we would all be willing to sign a disclaimer stateing if we fell off the back or side then it was down to us the company was not at fault ect ect.

Should we be allowed to ride on the sides and rear?

Tchocky · 04-19-07, 03:36 PM

well, it seems you are allowed, given that it's only a recommendation and you can sign a waiver

Kapitan · 04-19-07, 03:39 PM

Twist is that its not a company recomendation its against the law to ride the cart, it is an offence and if caught by the police or managerial staff it generaly leads to instant dismissal.

i would sign a wavier but we just need the dustmen to kick up a stink about it but they dont bother we do it any way caught we caught doesnt matter, but it would be nice to know from an outside view what the public think.

The Munster · 04-19-07, 05:02 PM

We had to sign a form 2 years ago to state that ..
1. We had to wear our 'uniform' at all times; if caught without it = written warning
2. We are not allowed to 'ride' on the side of the Refuse Collection Vehicle, caught doing this = written warning.
Now, it's all irrelevant to me, I've jacked it exactly 20 years and 1 week after starting and moving back to England .. the single status was the final kick in the b*lls for me !

Etienne · 04-19-07, 10:10 PM

I don't know workplace health and safety laws in England... But here, at least, you can't renounce your right to sue your employer, or receive worker's comp. Even if you do something extremely stupid, like, say... Ride a forklift while it's being lifted from a barge alongside, then lowered into the lower hold of a ship... Your employer is still liable. Unless they can prove beyond any doubt that they took every measures possible to prevent you from getting injured.

So AFAIK, if you get injured in the course of duty, your employer is liable. Even if you signed a waiver.

But I'm no lawyer, and I don't live in the UK.

Etienne

kiwi_2005 · 04-19-07, 10:40 PM

Yes you should be allowed to choose providing you know what could happen.

Recently in our town a dustman's son got run over by the truck, the driver was the father. It was a sad day as they were well known in the area i use to leave them a crate of beer every christmas. But yeah the son was picking up a rubbish bag threw it in the bin then jumped back on the side, only to slip and fall in front of the back wheel his dad then drove straight over him killing him.

The town put up a cross where the accident happen, the father still drives the rubbish truck but he wont do the street where his son died, the company understand this and get another truck to do the street on there way back to the depot.

Prof · 04-20-07, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitan

Twist is that its not a company recomendation its against the law to ride the cart, it is an offence and if caught by the police or managerial staff it generaly leads to instant dismissal.

If it's against the law then don't do it.

Quote:

i would sign a wavier but we just need the dustmen to kick up a stink about it but they dont bother we do it any way caught we caught doesnt matter, but it would be nice to know from an outside view what the public think.

I think Etienne is right in what he says about disclaimers. If the company recognises that an activity is dangerous enough for their workers to have to sign a disclaimer and yet they don't ban the activity, it seems certain that they would be prosecuted for negligence should an accident occur.

down and out · 04-20-07, 04:34 AM

Round our way they have a crew which goes ahead and banks all the bags up in a couple of locations per street
The dustcart crew usually walk from one to the other or get in completely
Havent seen any ride on the sides in a long time

Kapitan · 04-20-07, 06:51 AM

Yeah theres a guy that goes ahead pulling it makes it so much easier and quicker to load hence why bag work is better than bin work.

STEED · 04-20-07, 07:35 AM

Health and safety in this country is out of control with 90% BS from them. There was a time when you got good solid guide lines but now these swine want us all wrapped up in cotton wool.

I say this, if you Kapitan and your guys want to ride on the outside on a slow moving dust cart do so. They did it back in the 70's - 80's.

Yes we do need health and safety laws but they are going over the top and we don't need this over the top BS.

baggygreen · 04-20-07, 08:04 AM

Wow.. i havent seen those types of trucks in a long long time. we use wheely bins here. But i know our garbo's always used to do the whole ride-on-the-outside thing.

Our milko's still do!

Sailor Steve · 04-20-07, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baggygreen

Wow.. i havent seen those types of trucks in a long long time. we use wheely bins here. But i know our garbo's always used to do the whole ride-on-the-outside thing.

Our milko's still do!

So did ours, a long time ago. I even did it myself for a while. I don't recall anyone ever getting hurt.

Kapitan · 04-20-07, 01:31 PM

In the last 5 years in the essex county we have had 3 fatals and 36 incidents due to people riding the carts. (one fatal was a suicide)

One guy was riding the back of the cart when he fell in the hopper and the automatic blade came down this one was in southend, the other fatal was a guy riding the side fell off and went under the front wheel of the truck, and the third happend in chelmsford when one of the loaders put his head under the blade.

if we had foot plates at the rear we would be fine.

Etienne · 04-20-07, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitan

if we had foot plates at the rear we would be fine.

Foot plates at the rear of the trucks would be seen as an implicit endorsment of an illegal and unsafe act by the company. Liabillity gallore.

If you think this is BS safety (IMHO, it isn't, if you had 36 incidents in such a short period of time), wait until you discover the ISM code, and a SMS that was designed by a desk puke.

Etienne
(Posted as per C/L D-03, C/L D-05 and in compliance with C/L D-22

)

View Poll Results: should we be able to ?
Yes let us what harm can it do?	13	68.42%
No we already have enough road kill thankyou	1	5.26%
I dont know what was the question again?	5	26.32%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

04-19-07, 03:27 PM	#1
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	Should we be able too ? As you know at the moment i am a dustman working for basildon council, today we have had a plesent visit from the top guy in health and safety. Under the health and saftey guideline it is recomended that no one rides the outside of the lorry while it is in motion i.e sitting on the back or hanging onto the sides. Now as dustmen sometimes we go from pile to pile and sometimes its too far to walk or is uphill and to save time we just jump on the sides because it is utterly pointless getting in and getting out again as it takes too long. Now like 95% of my fellow dustmen we would all be willing to sign a disclaimer stateing if we fell off the back or side then it was down to us the company was not at fault ect ect. Should we be allowed to ride on the sides and rear? __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

04-19-07, 03:36 PM	#2
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	well, it seems you are allowed, given that it's only a recommendation and you can sign a waiver __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

04-19-07, 03:39 PM	#3
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	Twist is that its not a company recomendation its against the law to ride the cart, it is an offence and if caught by the police or managerial staff it generaly leads to instant dismissal. i would sign a wavier but we just need the dustmen to kick up a stink about it but they dont bother we do it any way caught we caught doesnt matter, but it would be nice to know from an outside view what the public think. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

04-19-07, 05:02 PM	#4
The Munster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Deepest Dumbria Posts: 1,243 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	We had to sign a form 2 years ago to state that .. 1. We had to wear our 'uniform' at all times; if caught without it = written warning 2. We are not allowed to 'ride' on the side of the Refuse Collection Vehicle, caught doing this = written warning. Now, it's all irrelevant to me, I've jacked it exactly 20 years and 1 week after starting and moving back to England .. the single status was the final kick in the blls for me ! __________________ GWX Team Member; Retired* GWX Home Page

04-19-07, 10:10 PM	#5
Etienne Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 695 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I don't know workplace health and safety laws in England... But here, at least, you can't renounce your right to sue your employer, or receive worker's comp. Even if you do something extremely stupid, like, say... Ride a forklift while it's being lifted from a barge alongside, then lowered into the lower hold of a ship... Your employer is still liable. Unless they can prove beyond any doubt that they took every measures possible to prevent you from getting injured. So AFAIK, if you get injured in the course of duty, your employer is liable. Even if you signed a waiver. But I'm no lawyer, and I don't live in the UK. Etienne

04-19-07, 10:40 PM	#6
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	Yes you should be allowed to choose providing you know what could happen. Recently in our town a dustman's son got run over by the truck, the driver was the father. It was a sad day as they were well known in the area i use to leave them a crate of beer every christmas. But yeah the son was picking up a rubbish bag threw it in the bin then jumped back on the side, only to slip and fall in front of the back wheel his dad then drove straight over him killing him. The town put up a cross where the accident happen, the father still drives the rubbish truck but he wont do the street where his son died, the company understand this and get another truck to do the street on there way back to the depot. __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.

04-20-07, 04:34 AM	#8
down and out Sparky Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: UK Posts: 150 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Round our way they have a crew which goes ahead and banks all the bags up in a couple of locations per street The dustcart crew usually walk from one to the other or get in completely Havent seen any ride on the sides in a long time

04-20-07, 06:51 AM	#9
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	Yeah theres a guy that goes ahead pulling it makes it so much easier and quicker to load hence why bag work is better than bin work. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

04-20-07, 07:35 AM	#10
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Health and safety in this country is out of control with 90% BS from them. There was a time when you got good solid guide lines but now these swine want us all wrapped up in cotton wool. I say this, if you Kapitan and your guys want to ride on the outside on a slow moving dust cart do so. They did it back in the 70's - 80's. Yes we do need health and safety laws but they are going over the top and we don't need this over the top BS. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

04-20-07, 08:04 AM	#11
baggygreen Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canberra, ACT, Down Under (really On Top) Posts: 1,880 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Wow.. i havent seen those types of trucks in a long long time. we use wheely bins here. But i know our garbo's always used to do the whole ride-on-the-outside thing. Our milko's still do!

04-20-07, 01:31 PM	#13
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	In the last 5 years in the essex county we have had 3 fatals and 36 incidents due to people riding the carts. (one fatal was a suicide) One guy was riding the back of the cart when he fell in the hopper and the automatic blade came down this one was in southend, the other fatal was a guy riding the side fell off and went under the front wheel of the truck, and the third happend in chelmsford when one of the loaders put his head under the blade. if we had foot plates at the rear we would be fine. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/