destroyers see me first?

jhelix70 · 04-20-07, 04:54 PM

Haven't started a war patrol yet but am trying all the quick missions. In one of them (the photo recon one) I keep spotting destroyers and dive but they appear to always spot me as well. In fact, I always spot them when they are coming right at me!

It seems they are seeing me first (this is at night, btw). Are these just uber-destroyers in this mission or are all the destroyers in the game this sharp-eyed? The submarine's low profile should mean I see them first, not the other way around (at least in general).

SUBMAN1 · 04-20-07, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhelix70

Haven't started a war patrol yet but am trying all the quick missions. In one of them (the photo recon one) I keep spotting destroyers and dive but they appear to always spot me as well. In fact, I always spot them when they are coming right at me!

It seems they are seeing me first (this is at night, btw). Are these just uber-destroyers in this mission or are all the destroyers in the game this sharp-eyed? The submarine's low profile should mean I see them first, not the other way around (at least in general).

Even the one in the convoy sub school sees you before you see him. They must have uber radar or eyes or soemthing. I've noticed the same thing!

Poochie · 04-20-07, 06:34 PM

Wish I could help you out, I'm having exactly the same problem. As you mentioned, destroyers can allready be charging at you by the time you spot them....

Insane

jhelix70 · 04-20-07, 06:53 PM

I can think of two possibilities:

1) During training and the single missions, your crew is very inexperienced and their detection ability has been reduced to unrealistic levels.

2) The sensor configuration of the japanese escorts is not correct. Given the many other mistakes in the game I wouldn't be surprised. Can someone in the know check to see if enemy escorts have radar? To my knowledge, the Japanese didn't have radar until very late in the war. It might be that the devs forgot to "turn it off" early to mid war, so now we have super seeing escorts. Something for the modders to check out anyway.

SUBMAN1 · 04-20-07, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhelix70

I can think of two possibilities:

1) During training and the single missions, your crew is very inexperienced and their detection ability has been reduced to unrealistic levels.

2) The sensor configuration of the japanese escorts is not correct. Given the many other mistakes in the game I wouldn't be surprised. Can someone in the know check to see if enemy escorts have radar? To my knowledge, the Japanese didn't have radar until very late in the war. It might be that the devs forgot to "turn it off" early to mid war, so now we have super seeing escorts. Something for the modders to check out anyway.

1) The DD's are bearing in on you before 'I' even see them. They are still hardly visible already on the way to depth charge you!

2.) The probably have radar. No other way they could see you.

-S

jhelix70 · 04-20-07, 09:07 PM

Yeah, I'm thinking #2 also.

I wonder if this effects all destroyers and escorts at all dates in the campaign. If so, its a major bug.

jhelix70 · 04-23-07, 03:36 PM

I just confirmed that the escorts do indeed have radar enabled. Disabling it in the sim.cfg file restores normal visual detection behaviour. Did the testing in the photo recon single mission. 1943 is way to early historically for the japanese to have radar.

Now we need to determine if this is just affecting the missions or does it affect the campaign too. If so, its a major bug destroying the realism of the sim while the sub is surfaced.

jhelix70 · 04-23-07, 05:52 PM

Update: it is the air search radar, it detects surface targets like our sub and is available pretty early in the war.

Seaman_Hornsby · 04-23-07, 06:11 PM

Nice work, jhelix. I've been wondering why the destroyers seem to be able to find me on the surface so easily.

Can you point out the offending portion of sim.cfg that needs editing? I'd like to get back to surface raiding.

tater · 04-23-07, 06:20 PM

It's not the sim.cfg that needs tweaking, that would mess around with all radar.

The issue is that the jap ships have no radar for a short while, then they all get Type 13 radar, then that gets improved to Type 21 radar.

The problem is that Type 13 was only an air search set, but in game it is also a surface search set.

The solution is (for each ship) to "NULL" out the link to type13 radar on each ship's sns file. Some of the dats are also wrong, with ships getting radar a year before it was invented, etc.

I'd wait a bit though, there is a chance it can be easily addressed via a change to the AI_sensors.dat file for that radar type. That would fix all ships with that set without requiring so many changes.

tater

Jungman · 04-24-07, 03:20 AM

Agree Tater:

Docimus set the SD to 10 meters range in last FFT. It too was detecting Airplanes and Ships all over the place. So it was effectively removed until proper fix.

Do the same to Enemy Type 13, turn range to 10 meter gimp. No bunch of files to change. That Air radar is detecting Ship and your Submarine also! Who cares if the AI can't detect USA aircraft anyway...it is wrongly pick up your submarine. AI_Sensors

Some IJN ships did get radar though early...use the dates means back to changing a buch of files?

tater · 04-24-07, 08:50 AM

Could the MinSurface=1.5 (which is the setting for ALL radars, BTW) be changed to a much larger number? Most of the IJN radars could see a large ship at ranges on the order of the max range of the game radars, but not a sub...

jhelix70 · 04-24-07, 03:33 PM

I went to AI_Sensors and changed the max range of the type 13 radar to 1. Worked like a charm.

04-20-07, 04:54 PM	#1
jhelix70 Sparky Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 152 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	destroyers see me first? Haven't started a war patrol yet but am trying all the quick missions. In one of them (the photo recon one) I keep spotting destroyers and dive but they appear to always spot me as well. In fact, I always spot them when they are coming right at me! It seems they are seeing me first (this is at night, btw). Are these just uber-destroyers in this mission or are all the destroyers in the game this sharp-eyed? The submarine's low profile should mean I see them first, not the other way around (at least in general).

04-23-07, 06:11 PM	#9
Seaman_Hornsby Engineer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 203 Downloads: 71 Uploads: 0	Nice work Nice work, jhelix. I've been wondering why the destroyers seem to be able to find me on the surface so easily. Can you point out the offending portion of sim.cfg that needs editing? I'd like to get back to surface raiding.

04-20-07, 06:34 PM	#3
Poochie Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Wish I could help you out, I'm having exactly the same problem. As you mentioned, destroyers can allready be charging at you by the time you spot them.... Insane

04-20-07, 06:53 PM	#4
jhelix70 Sparky Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 152 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I can think of two possibilities: 1) During training and the single missions, your crew is very inexperienced and their detection ability has been reduced to unrealistic levels. 2) The sensor configuration of the japanese escorts is not correct. Given the many other mistakes in the game I wouldn't be surprised. Can someone in the know check to see if enemy escorts have radar? To my knowledge, the Japanese didn't have radar until very late in the war. It might be that the devs forgot to "turn it off" early to mid war, so now we have super seeing escorts. Something for the modders to check out anyway.

04-20-07, 09:07 PM	#6
jhelix70 Sparky Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 152 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Yeah, I'm thinking #2 also. I wonder if this effects all destroyers and escorts at all dates in the campaign. If so, its a major bug.

04-23-07, 03:36 PM	#7
jhelix70 Sparky Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 152 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I just confirmed that the escorts do indeed have radar enabled. Disabling it in the sim.cfg file restores normal visual detection behaviour. Did the testing in the photo recon single mission. 1943 is way to early historically for the japanese to have radar. Now we need to determine if this is just affecting the missions or does it affect the campaign too. If so, its a major bug destroying the realism of the sim while the sub is surfaced.

04-23-07, 05:52 PM	#8
jhelix70 Sparky Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 152 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Update: it is the air search radar, it detects surface targets like our sub and is available pretty early in the war.

04-23-07, 06:20 PM	#10
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	It's not the sim.cfg that needs tweaking, that would mess around with all radar. The issue is that the jap ships have no radar for a short while, then they all get Type 13 radar, then that gets improved to Type 21 radar. The problem is that Type 13 was only an air search set, but in game it is also a surface search set. The solution is (for each ship) to "NULL" out the link to type13 radar on each ship's sns file. Some of the dats are also wrong, with ships getting radar a year before it was invented, etc. I'd wait a bit though, there is a chance it can be easily addressed via a change to the AI_sensors.dat file for that radar type. That would fix all ships with that set without requiring so many changes. tater

04-24-07, 03:20 AM	#11
Jungman Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 596 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Agree Tater: Docimus set the SD to 10 meters range in last FFT. It too was detecting Airplanes and Ships all over the place. So it was effectively removed until proper fix. Do the same to Enemy Type 13, turn range to 10 meter gimp. No bunch of files to change. That Air radar is detecting Ship and your Submarine also! Who cares if the AI can't detect USA aircraft anyway...it is wrongly pick up your submarine. AI_Sensors Some IJN ships did get radar though early...use the dates means back to changing a buch of files?

04-24-07, 08:50 AM	#12
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Could the MinSurface=1.5 (which is the setting for ALL radars, BTW) be changed to a much larger number? Most of the IJN radars could see a large ship at ranges on the order of the max range of the game radars, but not a sub...

04-24-07, 03:33 PM	#13
jhelix70 Sparky Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 152 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I went to AI_Sensors and changed the max range of the type 13 radar to 1. Worked like a charm.