Would launching torp below thermal layer mask it?

Castout · 04-08-07, 01:42 AM

If a sub track several surface targets then go to below thermal layer to launch its torpedoes based on the latest TMA would the torpedoes sonar signature be masked by the thermal layer effect in game? If so how much would it be masked? Anyone can prove this?

Smaragdadler · 04-08-07, 03:26 AM

Out of the hip, I would say the answer is as usual. Depends all on the local sonar conditions. But torps are very loud... Maybe in passiv-mode ? Then again there is something called 'shadow zone', where the sub can't be pinged...

Wait a little bit, there are better experts about this stuff then me on this board. They will come in soon.

Dr.Sid · 04-08-07, 09:28 AM

Since 1.03 (AFAIK) torpedoes are reported (Torpedo in the water, or TIW call) when they are detected on sonar. So if you mask the sound, the torpedo won't be reported and even AI will not react.

Layer can do that. But only when sound crosses it at shallow angle. Which usually means when the sound source (torpedo) is far away. Target ship will detect it sooner or later. You cannot mask it completely. I doubt you could get it closer then 5 nm without TIW. But it really depends a lot on conditions and nobody really knows exact numbers.

But sure this can help you. The target ship will have less time to get away. Torpedo at 5nm is really a problem. And also you will have more time to change your location, because most players (human and AI alike) will send some fish at the TIW bearing.

Active or passive should make no difference. When torpedo activates it should be close enough anyway. If the target is moving toward you, you can try slow torpedo. At large depth (which is usually the case if you want to send it under layer) it can run even without cavitation. You can then move slowly above the layer and watch for target's movement. You'll know when he detects the torpedo. He will at least drop CM and in most cases he'll flank away. In that moment remote-activate the torpedo, there is no need for it to run slow anymore.

Molon Labe · 04-08-07, 11:26 AM

I regularly fire torps under the layer for ASUW. Quite often, the torps are not detected until they enable and cross the layer a few nm out.

Be aware that with LW/Ami, if the skimmer is going slow enough, his TA will be under the layer and he'll pick it up.

Castout · 04-09-07, 05:03 AM

I haven't been able to prove it but i tried using this method against a Japanese Task Force. I sunk 8 of their ships(i was left wihout a single viable anti surface torpedo left).

Yea i tracked the surface targets then went below layer to launch the torpedoes then went back again to the upper layer to listen and track the surface movements.

Good to hear this strategy works in game

.

Molon Labe · 04-09-07, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

I haven't been able to prove it but i tried using this method against a Japanese Task Force. I sunk 8 of their ships(i was left wihout a single viable anti surface torpedo left).

Yea i tracked the surface targets then went below layer to launch the torpedoes then went back again to the upper layer to listen and track the surface movements.

Good to hear this strategy works in game

.

Tactic.

Fish · 04-09-07, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

In that moment remote-activate the torpedo, there is no need for it to run slow anymore.

The problem is, it won't run one mile faster after activation.

Dr.Sid · 04-09-07, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

In that moment remote-activate the torpedo, there is no need for it to run slow anymore.

The problem is, it won't run one mile faster after activation.

Oh really ? What a useless option then !

Castout · 04-09-07, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Tactic.

I knew there was somethin wrong

now i know what

Molon Labe · 04-09-07, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Tactic.

I knew there was somethin wrong

now i know what

One of my milsim pet peeves, sorry.

Fish · 04-10-07, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

In that moment remote-activate the torpedo, there is no need for it to run slow anymore.

The problem is, it won't run one mile faster after activation.

Oh really ? What a useless option then !

Even when it acquires the target it won't.

Castout · 04-11-07, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Even when it acquires the target it won't.

Is this supposed to be more realistic. If not PATCH IT pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezeeeeeeeeeeeeee

LuftWolf · 04-11-07, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Even when it acquires the target it won't.

Is this supposed to be more realistic. If not PATCH IT pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Since no one knows for sure, it is like that cat in the box... it is both alive and dead.

I mean, people do know for sure, but they both can't tell us, and it doesn't matter.

All those asking for that feature remember fondly when SCX was the ultimate decider of what was realistic and not realistic... a mine in the water for the good ship SCS DW, trying hard but originally lacking in so many ways...

Anyway, if you don't know what's "realism", does it matter what you are playing?

Cheers,
David

Molon Labe · 04-11-07, 06:24 AM

For questions of how weapons are programmed, I think it makes sense to assume that just about anything is possible these days. A program that would improve the performance of the weapon, ceteris paribus, can be thought of as realistic.

Speeding up upon enabling or detection falls into that category.

Dr.Sid · 04-11-07, 06:34 AM

Now that's smart aproach !

In that case I'd like to see after-enable course setting for wake-homers.

As for the activated torpedo speed. Is there any reason why it would continue at slow speed ?

04-08-07, 01:42 AM	#1
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Would launching torp below thermal layer mask it? If a sub track several surface targets then go to below thermal layer to launch its torpedoes based on the latest TMA would the torpedoes sonar signature be masked by the thermal layer effect in game? If so how much would it be masked? Anyone can prove this? __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

04-08-07, 11:26 AM	#4
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	I regularly fire torps under the layer for ASUW. Quite often, the torps are not detected until they enable and cross the layer a few nm out. Be aware that with LW/Ami, if the skimmer is going slow enough, his TA will be under the layer and he'll pick it up. __________________

04-09-07, 05:03 AM	#5
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	I haven't been able to prove it but i tried using this method against a Japanese Task Force. I sunk 8 of their ships(i was left wihout a single viable anti surface torpedo left). Yea i tracked the surface targets then went below layer to launch the torpedoes then went back again to the upper layer to listen and track the surface movements. Good to hear this strategy works in game . __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

04-11-07, 06:24 AM	#14
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	For questions of how weapons are programmed, I think it makes sense to assume that just about anything is possible these days. A program that would improve the performance of the weapon, ceteris paribus, can be thought of as realistic. Speeding up upon enabling or detection falls into that category. __________________

04-08-07, 03:26 AM	#2
Smaragdadler XO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Thuringia Posts: 429 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Out of the hip, I would say the answer is as usual. Depends all on the local sonar conditions. But torps are very loud... Maybe in passiv-mode ? Then again there is something called 'shadow zone', where the sub can't be pinged... Wait a little bit, there are better experts about this stuff then me on this board. They will come in soon.

04-08-07, 09:28 AM	#3
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Since 1.03 (AFAIK) torpedoes are reported (Torpedo in the water, or TIW call) when they are detected on sonar. So if you mask the sound, the torpedo won't be reported and even AI will not react. Layer can do that. But only when sound crosses it at shallow angle. Which usually means when the sound source (torpedo) is far away. Target ship will detect it sooner or later. You cannot mask it completely. I doubt you could get it closer then 5 nm without TIW. But it really depends a lot on conditions and nobody really knows exact numbers. But sure this can help you. The target ship will have less time to get away. Torpedo at 5nm is really a problem. And also you will have more time to change your location, because most players (human and AI alike) will send some fish at the TIW bearing. Active or passive should make no difference. When torpedo activates it should be close enough anyway. If the target is moving toward you, you can try slow torpedo. At large depth (which is usually the case if you want to send it under layer) it can run even without cavitation. You can then move slowly above the layer and watch for target's movement. You'll know when he detects the torpedo. He will at least drop CM and in most cases he'll flank away. In that moment remote-activate the torpedo, there is no need for it to run slow anymore.

04-11-07, 06:34 AM	#15
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Now that's smart aproach ! In that case I'd like to see after-enable course setting for wake-homers. As for the activated torpedo speed. Is there any reason why it would continue at slow speed ?