[WIP] Destabilizing the deck gun, a workaround...

kv29 · 06-26-07, 07:50 PM

I was fiddling with the gun tweak when I thought "ok, we can´t turn off the DG estabilization system because we don´t know where the hell is hidden, but what about if we could tie its hands? what would happen if I set the elevation speed to a minimum? would the estabilization system keep up with the sub roll?"...

Nope, it can´t :p

I set mine from 5 to 0.5 and guess what, the DG barely tries to estabilize at that speed, it goes up and down with the deck. You can still move the crosshair at the same speed as before BUT once the gun reachs the right angle, it will move along with the deck if the sub roll is strong enough, so if you fire at the wrong moment you will miss, you have to keep an eye at the gun barrell for the right moment.

Of course, at 0.5 speed it takes some time for the gun to move up and down, it doesn´t bother me at all.

I would really appreciate some feedbacks!

tater · 06-26-07, 08:24 PM

Make a mod of it to make it easy to test!

tater

panthercules · 06-26-07, 08:30 PM

Wow - this sounds cool - will have to try this out. Been really disappointed at the total gun stabilization in SH4. I hope that you could still zoom out, elevate and then zoom back in if you needed to increase the range a lot and didn't want it to take forever. Also, I wonder if this slows down the elevation when you press "shift+up" or only if you are using just the up key? Hope I can remember to test that later

Great find

kv29 · 06-26-07, 08:55 PM

http://rapidshare.com/files/39564497...0_gun.zip.html

The mod is for the 4"50 gun only. Be aware that the reloading time is set to 30 sec. Consider this as a beta!

Fearless · 06-26-07, 08:57 PM

will have to test that out

tater · 06-26-07, 09:05 PM

If it works well, it will be interesting to test it in combat conditions with a faster ROF. Then we can time the encounter, and actually see what effect this has not just on accuracy, but average ROF.

kv29 · 06-26-07, 09:23 PM

On rough seas and with a target farther than 1500 yards, and more accurate & powerfull freighter gunners, that would be a challenge!

kv29 · 06-26-07, 09:59 PM

I cant hit anything on rough seas over medium/long distances! :rotfl:
The deck gun STILL tries to estabilize a bit, but it takes a good amount of time until you see a firing "window" (when the gun stay as still as possible), but if a big wave catches the sub in that precise moment...:p

This seems totally realistic to me. Even if you have a round loaded, you don´t feel the urge to fire, unless you are at point blank range.

tater · 06-26-07, 11:04 PM

The stock pigboat gun is a 4-50, right?

I got the 30 second reload time, but othewise it seemed the same, I was firing over the bow, and the bow went up and down, and the gun stayed dead level.

tater

panthercules · 06-26-07, 11:50 PM

Hmm - I'm thinking maybe my gun tweak files are screwed up or something (though they seem to work for some other parameters). First, I tried setting the elevation speed to .5 as suggested above, and in game my gun elevated just fine but basically refused to traverse

So, I tried again, this time putting the elevation speed back to stock value and setting the traverse speed to .5 (in case they were just switched somehow), but I couldn't notice any difference in game - the gun traversed and elevated just as normal and I couldn't detect any loss of stabilization at 7m/s wind speed (highest wind I ever try using the gun in anyway, although since the US boats seem to have a higher freeboard than the German ones I suppose I might try using it at up to maybe 8m/s or so, at least for the stern-mounted guns).

Guess I'll try the D/L'ed file tomorrow and see if I can tell the difference.

Beery · 06-27-07, 02:35 AM

Great stuff! I'm doing some testing on this tonight - probably tomorrow too. Seems like this will be a way to get even more realism for the deck guns.

Bando · 06-27-07, 05:02 AM

I can hear the grumbling moans allready
:rotfl:

kv29 · 06-27-07, 06:00 AM

As I said, the gun still has a small amount of stabilization at 0.5, on calm seas is could be enough to keep it under control, but with winds over 7 it can´t. Try firing at long ranges. You want no stabilization at all? put the value to 0 and look, but you won´t be able to move the gun vertically.

Be aware that the crosshair is NOT anchored to the gun swinging. Use TC above 2 or 4 and look at the gun movement, it will be more evident.

Im still looking to disable the traverse thing that makes the gun to point the same direction when we turn to port or starboard. I believe is in the cameras.dat

The real problem is that the submarine seems to be runnin on rails as someone said, we need more roll & pitch to effectively destabilize the gun a little further.

I will post the mod for all the guns in another thread for further discussion.

Beery · 06-27-07, 06:08 AM

I've been testing it. At zero you can still move the gun up and down as normal, but the big problem with any restriction to the number is that the crosshairs don't give a clue as to where the gun is actually pointing, so for engagements at more than a couple of thousand yards the gun is basically going to be useless. If only we could get a sight that would move up and down with the gun's point of aim.

kv29 · 06-27-07, 06:50 AM

I cannot rise or lower the gun if set to 0
And the gun crew didn´t have a "floating crosshair", isnt it? :p

btw, were the aim system aided by a gyro in RL?

06-26-07, 07:50 PM	#1
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	[WIP] Destabilizing the deck gun, a workaround... I was fiddling with the gun tweak when I thought "ok, we can´t turn off the DG estabilization system because we don´t know where the hell is hidden, but what about if we could tie its hands? what would happen if I set the elevation speed to a minimum? would the estabilization system keep up with the sub roll?"... Nope, it can´t :p I set mine from 5 to 0.5 and guess what, the DG barely tries to estabilize at that speed, it goes up and down with the deck. You can still move the crosshair at the same speed as before BUT once the gun reachs the right angle, it will move along with the deck if the sub roll is strong enough, so if you fire at the wrong moment you will miss, you have to keep an eye at the gun barrell for the right moment. Of course, at 0.5 speed it takes some time for the gun to move up and down, it doesn´t bother me at all. I would really appreciate some feedbacks!

06-26-07, 08:30 PM	#3
panthercules The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,336 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Wow - this sounds cool - will have to try this out. Been really disappointed at the total gun stabilization in SH4. I hope that you could still zoom out, elevate and then zoom back in if you needed to increase the range a lot and didn't want it to take forever. Also, I wonder if this slows down the elevation when you press "shift+up" or only if you are using just the up key? Hope I can remember to test that later Great find __________________

06-26-07, 11:50 PM	#10
panthercules The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,336 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Hmm - I'm thinking maybe my gun tweak files are screwed up or something (though they seem to work for some other parameters). First, I tried setting the elevation speed to .5 as suggested above, and in game my gun elevated just fine but basically refused to traverse So, I tried again, this time putting the elevation speed back to stock value and setting the traverse speed to .5 (in case they were just switched somehow), but I couldn't notice any difference in game - the gun traversed and elevated just as normal and I couldn't detect any loss of stabilization at 7m/s wind speed (highest wind I ever try using the gun in anyway, although since the US boats seem to have a higher freeboard than the German ones I suppose I might try using it at up to maybe 8m/s or so, at least for the stern-mounted guns). Guess I'll try the D/L'ed file tomorrow and see if I can tell the difference. __________________

06-27-07, 02:35 AM	#11
Beery Admiral Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA (but still a Yorkshireman at heart - tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman...) Posts: 2,497 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Great stuff! I'm doing some testing on this tonight - probably tomorrow too. Seems like this will be a way to get even more realism for the deck guns. __________________ "More mysterious. Yeah. I'll just try to think, 'Where the hell's the whiskey?'" - Bob Harris, Lost in Translation. "Anyrooad up, ah'll si thi" - Missen.

06-27-07, 06:08 AM	#14
Beery Admiral Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA (but still a Yorkshireman at heart - tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman...) Posts: 2,497 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I've been testing it. At zero you can still move the gun up and down as normal, but the big problem with any restriction to the number is that the crosshairs don't give a clue as to where the gun is actually pointing, so for engagements at more than a couple of thousand yards the gun is basically going to be useless. If only we could get a sight that would move up and down with the gun's point of aim. __________________ "More mysterious. Yeah. I'll just try to think, 'Where the hell's the whiskey?'" - Bob Harris, Lost in Translation. "Anyrooad up, ah'll si thi" - Missen.

06-26-07, 08:24 PM	#2
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Make a mod of it to make it easy to test! tater

06-26-07, 08:55 PM	#4
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	http://rapidshare.com/files/39564497...0_gun.zip.html The mod is for the 4"50 gun only. Be aware that the reloading time is set to 30 sec. Consider this as a beta!

06-26-07, 08:57 PM	#5
Fearless Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 1,047 Downloads: 340 Uploads: 1	will have to test that out

06-26-07, 09:05 PM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	If it works well, it will be interesting to test it in combat conditions with a faster ROF. Then we can time the encounter, and actually see what effect this has not just on accuracy, but average ROF.

06-26-07, 09:23 PM	#7
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	On rough seas and with a target farther than 1500 yards, and more accurate & powerfull freighter gunners, that would be a challenge!

06-26-07, 09:59 PM	#8
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I cant hit anything on rough seas over medium/long distances! :rotfl: The deck gun STILL tries to estabilize a bit, but it takes a good amount of time until you see a firing "window" (when the gun stay as still as possible), but if a big wave catches the sub in that precise moment...:p This seems totally realistic to me. Even if you have a round loaded, you don´t feel the urge to fire, unless you are at point blank range.

06-26-07, 11:04 PM	#9
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The stock pigboat gun is a 4-50, right? I got the 30 second reload time, but othewise it seemed the same, I was firing over the bow, and the bow went up and down, and the gun stayed dead level. tater

06-27-07, 05:02 AM	#12
Bando Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Where you don't see me Posts: 607 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	I can hear the grumbling moans allready :rotfl:

06-27-07, 06:00 AM	#13
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	As I said, the gun still has a small amount of stabilization at 0.5, on calm seas is could be enough to keep it under control, but with winds over 7 it can´t. Try firing at long ranges. You want no stabilization at all? put the value to 0 and look, but you won´t be able to move the gun vertically. Be aware that the crosshair is NOT anchored to the gun swinging. Use TC above 2 or 4 and look at the gun movement, it will be more evident. Im still looking to disable the traverse thing that makes the gun to point the same direction when we turn to port or starboard. I believe is in the cameras.dat The real problem is that the submarine seems to be runnin on rails as someone said, we need more roll & pitch to effectively destabilize the gun a little further. I will post the mod for all the guns in another thread for further discussion.

06-27-07, 06:50 AM	#15
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I cannot rise or lower the gun if set to 0 And the gun crew didn´t have a "floating crosshair", isnt it? :p btw, were the aim system aided by a gyro in RL?