Question on orders vs. opportunity

hmatthias · 04-02-07, 08:05 AM

I am on a patrol where I am to insert an agent in Manilla. However, I have come across a large convoy on my way there. In real life, would a sub captain attack this, and risk being sunk, losing the agent as well, or would he take the opportunity to do some damage? I am planning on taking out a a few ships of this convoy, but wondered what the "real life" thing to do would be.

Also, a minor critisism, but the merchant traffic seems a little to numerous right now. I found unescorted freighters between New Guinea and Australia in January 1943, which seemed a bit odd. I wonder where they were going, since all of that territory was Allied at the time...

ParaB · 04-02-07, 08:27 AM

I guess "in reality" if you attacked the convoy succesfully and afterwards inserted the spy the navy would praise your undaunted determination, would shower you with medals and would call you a true example of the brave fighting spirit of the US submarine service. ComSubPac would invite you for coffee and introduce his beautiful daughter, telling her to be "nice" to "our hero".

If you had attacked the convoy and your attack failed, your boat suffering damage, forcing you to abort your mission, you would have been called an absolutely irresponsible disgrace of a naval officer, willfully disobeying orders and failing your mission because of a severy lack of personal judgement. ComSubPac wouldn't invite you for coffee and you would never find out that "daddy's little girl" had a penchant for heroes and could get quite passionate during a little moonwalk...

The choice is yours...

mookiemookie · 04-02-07, 08:32 AM

I think a real commander would probably send a radio report on the convoy or taskforce and continue on with the insertion mission. I think, anyways. :hmm:

SteamWake · 04-02-07, 08:37 AM

There is no real way to model this in the game but...

What are the "agents" orders ?

Are the orders urgent ?

Would the agents actions create a greater disruption to the enemy than the sinking of a few ships ?

Kind of roleplaying thing I guess.

hmatthias · 04-02-07, 08:38 AM

I tried to send a contact report. Clicked on it but nothing happened. Do I have to have visual contact or something? I had radar contact, not visual, when I sent it.

DURUK · 04-02-07, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I think a real commander would probably send a radio report on the convoy or taskforce and continue on with the insertion mission. I think, anyways. :hmm:

i kind of agree.. however as far as i've remember at the mission briefing of the agent missions it says something like "secrecy is top priority here"..

in that respect a commander might even rethink to send a report and risk to get his pressence known to the enemy..

SinisterDexter · 04-02-07, 08:45 AM

I never found that sending reports ever made any difference in gameplay - even in SHIII

Henri II · 04-02-07, 08:58 AM

This beeing the military, I think it wouldn't be left to the skippers discretion. Rather he would have some pretty clear orders on what to do in such a situation and what better not.

tater · 04-02-07, 09:06 AM

Other than the USN the experiments with small wolfpacks, didn't US subs always maintain radio silence? That was the impressionthat I had, anyway. I'd think it would have to be a particularly important target to justify a radio report at all.

AVGWarhawk · 04-02-07, 09:15 AM

SINK'EM

mookiemookie · 04-02-07, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmatthias

I tried to send a contact report. Clicked on it but nothing happened. Do I have to have visual contact or something? I had radar contact, not visual, when I sent it.

Yep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinisterDexter

I never found that sending reports ever made any difference in gameplay - even in SHIII

Then you have no idea of the pure awesomeness of seeing Stukas divebomb convoys off the coast of Norway or in the Med. It does make a difference, you just have to be within range of air cover.

Skweetis · 04-02-07, 09:18 AM

It does have to be visual contact for the report to go through. In about 5 minutes you should have a response as to what command wants you to do.

So far in cases like this, I've been told to ignore, and leave it for other forces to engage. I've also been ordered to soften the escorts (this is tough, those DD's are quick, and don't like straight lines.) the other one I got told me to engage at will, rip em a new one.

I'm so having a lot of fun with this! The fact that they went so far as to add this feature, pleases me to no end!

CHeers

AVGWarhawk · 04-02-07, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmatthias

I tried to send a contact report. Clicked on it but nothing happened. Do I have to have visual contact or something? I had radar contact, not visual, when I sent it.

Yep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinisterDexter

I never found that sending reports ever made any difference in gameplay - even in SHIII

Then you have no idea of the pure awesomeness of seeing Stukas divebomb convoys off the coast of Norway or in the Med. It does make a difference, you just have to be within range of air cover.

Yes, contact reports do generate message to you. I have sent convoy contacts several times and received responsed to either go after it, great job we will send other assest to handle it. Things like that. These messages will just pop up on the screen. No clipboad is needed although it is logged on the clipboard.

Redwine · 04-02-07, 09:26 AM

Forget the orders...

It is better a single bird on hands, than 100 flying....

Sink them....

Snowman999 · 04-02-07, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I think a real commander would probably send a radio report on the convoy or taskforce and continue on with the insertion mission. I think, anyways. :hmm:

In reality the CO's orders would cover this situaiton.

04-02-07, 08:05 AM	#1
hmatthias Loader Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: United States Posts: 82 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Question on orders vs. opportunity I am on a patrol where I am to insert an agent in Manilla. However, I have come across a large convoy on my way there. In real life, would a sub captain attack this, and risk being sunk, losing the agent as well, or would he take the opportunity to do some damage? I am planning on taking out a a few ships of this convoy, but wondered what the "real life" thing to do would be. Also, a minor critisism, but the merchant traffic seems a little to numerous right now. I found unescorted freighters between New Guinea and Australia in January 1943, which seemed a bit odd. I wonder where they were going, since all of that territory was Allied at the time...

04-02-07, 08:32 AM	#3
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	I think a real commander would probably send a radio report on the convoy or taskforce and continue on with the insertion mission. I think, anyways. :hmm: __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

04-02-07, 09:15 AM	#10
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,254 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	SINK'EM __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

04-02-07, 09:18 AM	#12
Skweetis Watch Officer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cambridge, Canada Posts: 335 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	It does have to be visual contact for the report to go through. In about 5 minutes you should have a response as to what command wants you to do. So far in cases like this, I've been told to ignore, and leave it for other forces to engage. I've also been ordered to soften the escorts (this is tough, those DD's are quick, and don't like straight lines.) the other one I got told me to engage at will, rip em a new one. I'm so having a lot of fun with this! The fact that they went so far as to add this feature, pleases me to no end! CHeers __________________ "Is the glass half-empty? Or half-full? Either way, when you're thirsty, there's water to be had in that glass." - Neal Stevens

04-02-07, 09:26 AM	#14
Redwine Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: San Martin de los Andes, Neuquen, , Argentina. Posts: 1,962 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Forget the orders... It is better a single bird on hands, than 100 flying.... Sink them.... __________________ . "SH III and SH IV Mods" "Manual TDC Tutorial" "SH2 Downloads Selection"

04-02-07, 08:27 AM	#2
ParaB Chief Join Date: May 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 327 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	I guess "in reality" if you attacked the convoy succesfully and afterwards inserted the spy the navy would praise your undaunted determination, would shower you with medals and would call you a true example of the brave fighting spirit of the US submarine service. ComSubPac would invite you for coffee and introduce his beautiful daughter, telling her to be "nice" to "our hero". If you had attacked the convoy and your attack failed, your boat suffering damage, forcing you to abort your mission, you would have been called an absolutely irresponsible disgrace of a naval officer, willfully disobeying orders and failing your mission because of a severy lack of personal judgement. ComSubPac wouldn't invite you for coffee and you would never find out that "daddy's little girl" had a penchant for heroes and could get quite passionate during a little moonwalk... The choice is yours...

04-02-07, 08:37 AM	#4
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	There is no real way to model this in the game but... What are the "agents" orders ? Are the orders urgent ? Would the agents actions create a greater disruption to the enemy than the sinking of a few ships ? Kind of roleplaying thing I guess.

04-02-07, 08:38 AM	#5
hmatthias Loader Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: United States Posts: 82 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I tried to send a contact report. Clicked on it but nothing happened. Do I have to have visual contact or something? I had radar contact, not visual, when I sent it.

04-02-07, 08:45 AM	#7
SinisterDexter Seaman Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 38 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	I never found that sending reports ever made any difference in gameplay - even in SHIII

04-02-07, 08:58 AM	#8
Henri II Sparky Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 156 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	This beeing the military, I think it wouldn't be left to the skippers discretion. Rather he would have some pretty clear orders on what to do in such a situation and what better not.

04-02-07, 09:06 AM	#9
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Other than the USN the experiments with small wolfpacks, didn't US subs always maintain radio silence? That was the impressionthat I had, anyway. I'd think it would have to be a particularly important target to justify a radio report at all.