Where are the TUTORIALS?

[fishomega]

Where can I locate the tutorials within the Dangerous Waters game?

Ages ago, on the Sega Genesis console I played various Electronic Arts combat sims, such as YF22 Fighter, M1 Abrams, and 688 Attack Sub. The sub game was the hardest to learn, and the most fun.

25 years later, I've got a PC, and I've played a variety of games. Most combat sim
games had system requirements way beyond the capacity of my Gateway 500C.
I noticed Dangerous Waters, and figured it was a good value, plenty of platforms to try out.

However, I know ZERO about real-life miltary technology or terminology. That sort of stuff is pretty dry fare for a game. I wasn't thrilled to see the game had evidently emphasied authenticity over playability.

But, worst of all, I cannot find the in-game tutorials that are supposedly on disc two.

[LuftWolf]

This the fault of:

1) Sonalysts for not including at least ONE demo mission for each platform with a short walk-through after three separate distributions.

2) The community for not creating at least ONE demo mission for each platform with a short walk-through after two years.

I'm busy making mods, but when I finish this latest version maybe I can make some helpful tutorials.

I apologize that no one has done this sooner, as it's always been immensely obvious that it needs to be done.

Thank you for raising this issue.

Cheers,
David

PS Many people have done things, I will say, and thanks to those that have, however, it's necessary for this to be done in a coordinated fashion, with each mission having a proper tutorial structure and text walkthrough.

[Janus]

Originally Posted by fishomega

However, I know ZERO about real-life miltary technology or terminology. That sort of stuff is pretty dry fare for a game. I wasn't thrilled to see the game had evidently emphasied authenticity over playability.

I had similar problems when starting with Dangerous Waters, I had no clue of modern ASW and I had to read through lots of threads here in the forum and tutorials at subguru's site.

The only advice (as an "advanced" noob I consider myself) I can give you is to search and read here in the forums and ask questions when you don't learn what you want from the forum and tutorials.

[Bellman]

The nine tutorials are on Disc 2.

There is instructional material and scenarios out there on SubGuru:
1. FFG - MahuJa,
2. P3 - OS and Beer.
3. Sub Sonar - Bellman SVAK - a primer scenario and notes (kit optional.)

But LW is right there is no cordination and common means of presentation. OS called for this a long time ago on Commanders Academy. (Other good material there.) Sea Queens mission Powerpoint presentations have set a benchmark for brevity and lucidity backed by excellent supporting briefs and maps.

The learning curve is steep given current support material.

[Pisces]

There was a 3-part tutorial based on the Seawolf included with Subcommand. It included all the basics from helm control to sonar detection to basic-TMA to torp launch I believe. Have all of the scenario designers forgotten about porting it to DW or is there something that prevents that? Copyrights, I mean. I can imagine Sonalyst didn't want those .wav files to be spread around in 3rd party scenario designs. I have no experience in scenario design or I would have given it a try. Maybe someone can make a non-audio out of it.

[OneShot]

The problem with making tutorial missions is that unlike with SubCommand there is no way to detect that the player has done certain actions like for example extending the persicope or changing course (hence nobody has converted the tutorial missions - no use ). SCS has not implemented those script commands in DW. Reason according to Jamie was that with the addition of the new non-sub platforms this would have been to complex for their allocated development time.

There are two walkthroughs available for the two Demo missions, however thats not as good as having a build for that purpose tutorial mission. My only advice at this moment is one that has been brought up earlier ... read through the available material and ask questions.

Btw. last year I tried to get something going in that direction ( find more here ) but unfortunatly nobody gave it a try ... If there is interest I would consider starting such a competition again.

Cheers
OS

[Mau]

``Sea Queens mission Powerpoint presentations have set a benchmark for brevity and lucidity backed by excellent supporting briefs and maps.``

Where can we find those of Sea Queens?

Thanks

[Bellman]

Mau: Go to Bill Nichols site SubGuru http://www.subguru.com/

DW Custom Scenarios - 'Other peoples..' DL - KaraSeaStratA and NATO_EXWAR_Exercise

Both contain professional class PP presentations.

Edit: These are not Tutorials but demonstrate the potentials for cutting-in supporting material for any aspirant tutorial scenario designer.

[Bill Nichols]

If you want a nice, safe sub mission to practice with, try "We Dive at Dawn" from my site.

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by fishomega

Where can I locate the tutorials within the Dangerous Waters game?

Ages ago, on the Sega Genesis console I played various Electronic Arts combat sims, such as YF22 Fighter, M1 Abrams, and 688 Attack Sub. The sub game was the hardest to learn, and the most fun.

25 years later, I've got a PC, and I've played a variety of games. Most combat sim
games had system requirements way beyond the capacity of my Gateway 500C.
I noticed Dangerous Waters, and figured it was a good value, plenty of platforms to try out.

However, I know ZERO about real-life miltary technology or terminology. That sort of stuff is pretty dry fare for a game. I wasn't thrilled to see the game had evidently emphasied authenticity over playability.

But, worst of all, I cannot find the in-game tutorials that are supposedly on disc two.

Go to the game Editor:
And make yourself a simple one on one mission, sub verses sub, this is what i do to teach myself the game as i find the campaign missions buggy and im not fully 100% uber commander. Two subs one the Seawolf the other the Kilo or Akula, just make sure your zoomed in very close before making the mission nothing like creating a cool mission only to realise the enemy sub you placed is 10,000 miles away from you! Unkowningly your just spent the last 4 hrs playing the mission while pulling your hair out trying to find that REALLY quite Seawolf!. You never will shes way to far away!.

I have found the Kilo is the best sub for me to learn in, its not all that easy and trying to go up against a Seawolf its pretty hard as she will usually find me first but i have read on here of players easily sinking a Seawolf with a Kilo, im yet to do it . In one mission i created the seawolf found me shot of a couple of torpedoes yet i still couldn't find her!!!

Then when u start getting better at it, make your missions a bit harder, add in some destroyers, helicopters roaming around, maybe a carrier or supertanker just for target practice & have a couple of seawolfs guarding her and some friendlies just to piss of your sonar man or more like, to confuse yourself.

[desertisland]

I have this game for more than a year now. I have it installed, runned, played, frustrated over, and uninstalled. Despite all these I know there is a promising game but work, daily business, and other games (Red Storm Rising, Covert Action, Napoleon's Great Battle Series) get in the way. Last month I reinstalled it, downloaded and printed tons of material, determined to learn the game once and for all. So far I have a rough idea how the sonars and TMA work, but can't say I have mastered 5% of the game.

Please, Sonalyst, make us tutorial missions for at least every platform! If it can't be implemented with existing script, at least provide written instructions to be consulted side-by-side.

I'm sure there is a rewarding game experience in DW but I can't recommend it to anyone but the most hardcore of submariners. And I want to recommend it to my friends who are potential submariners!

[FERdeBOER]

As I use to make (and few times finish) missions, I asume my part of responsability on not creating such missions.
The point is that most of us learned playing Sub Command and 688i (and others, of course), and, honestly i dind't thought on creating tutorials...

When I finish the two projects on wich I'm working I will try to create, no tutorial missions, but a kind of naval akademy to learn the basics...

[moose1am]

As one who has played 688i and subcommand a little bit I am now just realizing why I know more about the subs than the other platforms. Maybe that is why I choose to play and learn the helicopter and the P3C airplane first in DW. And now I am working on learning to use the FFG ship.

Maybe a few tutorials on the FFG, Helo and P3C would be more needed than on the subs? Any thoughts on this idea?

If I knew how to make missions I would set it up to work on the fundamentals for each platform. A simple mission with one ship or plane to contend with. Each mission would be structured to learn on component or two on each platform. Then another training mission could be made for other components of each platform until all the platforms are well known.

For example using the FFG. I would make a mission with the FFG against one submarine. Even this is complex as the FFG drive can use one or two helicopters to help locate the sub or the driver of the FFG can drop buoys from his own ship and then use these to find the sub. Or he could use the towed array and use tma to track the sub. To kill the sub he can use the attached helo's or the ships own torpedoes. And this is just in SINGLE Player MODE. Then you can add in the Auto crew or the player can take control over the stations.

An things will change if you are playing a Multilayer game and have someone else flying a player controlled helicopter or P3C. That would complicate things much more. For without voice over Internet ability it would be hard to actually coordinate a game. So one would have to learn to setup and use Teamspeak and also be able to setup the server for a multiplayer game. It's been a long time since I have used VOIP software and I never was able to really get good at hosting a game. My old computer didn't have the power to handle all that at one time.

But I would break the game down into it's component parts and train on each part until I had learned all parts of the game. Even that's complicated because of the connections that must be know between two stations. For example the Weapons Coordinator is interconnected with the weapon control station. And you must control the CWIS when launching and controlling helos. Then there is safe winds and pitch and green decks etc.

I am finding the FFG the most complicated platform to learn so far.

I tried one of the stock missions and the first time I played that mission I had two torpedoes fired at me within a few minutes. I didn't even have any time to learn anything. Now that type of mission may be OK for the experienced player but for a total newbie it was not what I was looking for. I made some new missions to play but then I put the sub over 100 miles away from my ship. I sent my helicopter out to drop a buoy but lost the link to the helo when it went away to far. I tried to figure out how far the helo can get from my FFG before I lost the link but can't find that information in the manual. I am still looking for that info.

Originally Posted by FERdeBOER

As I use to make (and few times finish) missions, I assume my part of responsibility on not creating such missions.
The point is that most of us learned playing Sub Command and 688i (and others, of course), and, honestly i didn't thought on creating tutorials...

When I finish the two projects on which I'm working I will try to create, no tutorial missions, but a kind of naval academy to learn the basics...

[Iron Budokan]

Originally Posted by Bill Nichols

If you want a nice, safe sub mission to practice with, try "We Dive at Dawn" from my site.

I want to second this. It's a great little practice mission and I found it very helpful.

[Iron Budokan]

I want to echo some of the frustration other gamers are voicing regarding lack of tutorials. But, playing SC and then moving on to playing the kilo in DW helped me a lot in learning certain aspects of the game.

I also agree the kilo is a good platform for the new commander (new to these type of modern sub sims, anyway) to first learn. Having come from SH3 I was happy to see there was enough similarity between handling the kilo and a WWII sub so I didn't feel ABSOLUTELY lost. Sort of like easing into a hot bath one toe at a time...