GWX visual range and detection question

[Sgian Dubh]

Hi all,

So now that I have some time in on GWX I seem to be struggling to deal with one issue.

Let me illustrate by example:

I start the Drumbeat single mission.


You start submerged.
Regardless of what heading or speed I set, regardless of bottoming the boat or running silent - shortly after dusk an Armed trawler shows up and make a bee-line straight for me and begins pinging me when it comes into range.

After about 8 iterations of this I finally surfaced on the last attempt and then blew it out of the water with my deck gun.

This is just one illustration.

In other scenarios and in the campaign it seems like I am detected (at night - I never surface during the day) from extremely long ranges, even in early war.

I do not mean to say that GWX is "too hard" or some thing is wrong with GWX.

But I need to understand better that I do now what is going on and why.

If it is a calm sea, middle of the night and no moon, what is a safe distance (from DDs) that one can operate on the surface? I don't mean go screaming along - I mean creeping and recharing my batteries.

I don't mind so much the challenge, especially in later years. But in 1939 it seems much harder that I would have expected.

So just some hints on how to cope with this in GWX would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Mooncatt]

calm seas=better sonar/ASDIC on the DD`s i been spotted on the surface on clear nights/days from a good way off round about 5km or summat daft. silent running 1-2knts and as deep as possible. i do not attack escorted ships in later war if the weather isnt on my side, if you do you can kiss ya butt goodbye.

[Steppenwolf]

Don't forget that in GWX, you can run with "decks awash" when stalking/attacking a ship/convoy.

In a type VII, ( which usually runs at a depth of 5 meters when surfaced ). If you set the depth to 6 meters you will run with decks slightly awash. Your speed and fuel efficiency will drop to about 82% of normal, but you will be harder to see and can still man the deck gun. You can also set the depth to 7 meters to run with the decks heavily awash (pretty much just the conning tower out of the water). Your speed and fuel efficiency will drop to about 75% of normal, but you are even more difficult to spot.

[leeclose]

Also rememeber that water is the perfect conductor of sound so in perfect weather ie calm seas Sonar/asic can pick you up farting at 8 to 10 km

[Sgian Dubh]

Originally Posted by leeclose

Also rememeber that water is the perfect conductor of sound so in perfect weather ie calm seas Sonar/asic can pick you up farting at 8 to 10 km

Damn Bernard and his sausages! I just *knew* it was the sausages!

[leeclose]

Bratwurst all the way literally the smelly sonar

[Lanzfeld]

In GWX with flat seas (wind o m/s) and no fog the AI can see 30 km. Yes that is 30,000 meters. Go to the mods discussion forum and search for visual nodes. There you will find an alternative mod that uses NYGM values for GWX. If you want to try something different.

[Dantenoc]

Are you sure about this? That would seem completely unffair taking into account that game world's horizon only extends out to 8kms (even using the 16km version would fall short)

[Steppenwolf]

I believe the post/thread Lanzfeld is referring to is this one:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...6&postcount=12

Ducimus says the visual range is 30km, but points out that that is for flawless conditions. Environmental variables (light, sea state, fog, clouds etc.) all have a dramatic impact on this.

See also, Kpt. Lehmann's comments on the same subject:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...10&postcount=7

[Tobus]

Make enough noise under water and a DD/escort can hear you as well as you do him over your KDB. And yes, that is from a long way!

[joea]

Originally Posted by Lanzfeld

In GWX with flat seas (wind o m/s) and no fog the AI can see 30 km. Yes that is 30,000 meters. Go to the mods discussion forum and search for visual nodes. There you will find an alternative mod that uses NYGM values for GWX. If you want to try something different.

Guys he did not say that he said here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...10&postcount=7

Something else that you must understand regarding the visual sensors in GWX as they stand in general. They yield a POTENTIAL (not a certainty) of seeing a reasonable distance based on first hand accounts and modern range estimations from a known point to another known point.

You can indeed see 30 km on a clear day. (In GWX we are limited to 16km for obvious reasons.)

This POTENTIAL spotting is influenced by several atmospheric variables.

My bold, he means 30 km IRL and limited to 16 in GWX.

[leeclose]

I didnt know you got clear days in SH3(j/k)

[Lanzfeld]

If you read that entire "visual node" thread he does mean 30 km in the game. That is why, on clear calm days, you can have an escort shell you from over the horizon or just come charging at you from over the horizon and you are like "where the hell did he come from???"

I did say in my first post that this is in perfect conditions.

[Sgian Dubh]

Thanks for all of the information and feedback.

I had a much better time on patrol last night after reading this stuff through.


So I have one follow up question:

Is there the chance of dumb luck with GWX? What I mean is that in 1940, on a moonless night with good weather can I even expect to have a chance at running a surface attack on a convoy and getting away?

Or will the escorts "see" me the instant I surface?

I don't mind pushing the edge of risk, but if it is certain death regardless, then I will just stay under. Also, this means a much more difficult overhauling process - but I generally have always tried to hold a 20 mile distance while overhauling, so this should still be a viable tactic, yes?

[Mooncatt]

people have posted various techniques on surface attacks but it isnt something i would do tbh