Did any wartime US boats have snorkels?

[difool2]

Other than a few experimental boats, I don't believe so. Good thing that the Japanese
didn't have the kinds of toys that the Allies did in the other ocean.

[Torplexed]

Nope. No snorkels during the conflict. Not til well after the war after studying the German Type XXI did the US Navy's GUPPY class subs come into being. The Japanese got a few examples from the Germans and incoporated them into their late war sprint subs like the Sensuikan Taka Sho (Type STS)

[IRONxMortlock]

What do they say, "necessity is the mother of all invention"?

Except for this perhaps...

________
Colorado dispensaries

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by IRONxMortlock

What do they say, "necessity is the mother of all invention"?

Very true. The Germans captured their first snorkel examples from the Dutch when they overran the Netherlands in 1940. It took the grevious losses being suffered from aircraft in 1942-43 before they starting installing them rather late in the war.

[Capt.LoneRanger]

It's really funny how people still think the German submarine fleet was the most advanced in the world, just because it was the most famous. :hmm:


Anyway - the Netherlands had been experimenting with the snorkel from 1938 on and Germany adopted that system for their boats. The basic problem about the modification was the stability of the snorkel. Even late-war-submarines had to drive rather slowly, not much faster than 6kts to not damage the tube and it was very vulnerable in rough sea.

For the US, this was simply not practicable. They experimented with the system, but refit-programs were only initiated after the war, accompanied with larger refit-programs for the submarine-fleet, including projects to modify the hull for this purpose, to eliminate the drawbacks.

[IRONxMortlock]

Originally Posted by Capt.LoneRanger

It's really funny how people still think the German submarine fleet was the most advanced in the world, just because it was the most famous. :hmm:


Anyway - the Netherlands had been experimenting with the snorkel from 1938 on and Germany adopted that system for their boats. The basic problem about the modification was the stability of the snorkel. Even late-war-submarines had to drive rather slowly, not much faster than 6kts to not damage the tube and it was very vulnerable in rough sea.

For the US, this was simply not practicable. They experimented with the system, but refit-programs were only initiated after the war, accompanied with larger refit-programs for the submarine-fleet, including projects to modify the hull for this purpose, to eliminate the drawbacks.

Yes, but you have to admit that having their u-boats constantly sunk by aircraft was a huge incentive for the German navy to more rapidly install and use devices such as the snorkle. The US had far less need for it.

Also, don't forget the Type XXI. Revoultionary for its day and the first true submarine.
________
GisseleVogue

[nattydread]

Originally Posted by IRONxMortlock

What do they say, "necessity is the mother of all invention"?

Except for this perhaps...

Dude! No one even asked the obvious....What the hell are those?!?!?!

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by nattydread

Dude! No one even asked the obvious....What the hell are those?!?!?!

Beach glasses? Everywhere looks like it's covered in beach sand? :hmm:

[Capt.LoneRanger]

Originally Posted by IRONxMortlock

Yes, but you have to admit that having their u-boats constantly sunk by aircraft was a huge incentive for the German navy to more rapidly install and use devices such as the snorkle. The US had far less need for it.

Also, don't forget the Type XXI. Revoultionary for its day and the first true submarine.

Indeed, that is exactly what I said. The US-submarines were not less advanced because they didn't use snorkels.


Of course I don't forget about the XXI - it was a great design, but honestly it was evolution, not revolution. It's snorkel, the radar, the active sonar, the 'stealth'-cover, even the batteries and the form of the hull were based on prior systems and other nations had more advanced designs in many areas, just not such an effective combination. Still, the XXI did by far not live up to it's expectations, even since it was a big surprise to the allies. Only 120 were built, only 2 actually were commited and even though they started their 'Feindfahrt' in June 1944, they didn't even manage to damage a single ship until the end of the war.

It was also no submarine in the todays sense of the word. It could stay dived a long time and even was able to recharge batteries while submerged and the air-filters aided to that. The problem however was, the snorkel was not suitable for higher speeds and higher waves and the engines consumed more fuel than when surfaced. So it could not complete a mission submerged in normal weather, which is the qualification for a real submarine, opposing a dive-boat.

The submarine-fleet operating with the I400, however, was enroute from Japan through the Indian-Ocean and the complete Atlantik and was about to strike the Panama-Channel in 1945, with the 6 bombers of the 2 subcarriers, each able to carry 800kg of bombs. And they were only stopped because Japan had surrendered a few days before the attack. The teams inspecting the German submarines were called back to inspect the Japanese subs and they were astonished by the equipment and technology, that surpassed anything they'd seen so far. But, well, what do they know...

[IRONxMortlock]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Beach glasses? Everywhere looks like it's covered in beach sand? :hmm:

life's a beach hey?
________
How to roll a joint

[Capt.LoneRanger]

Better this way than sand in the eye.

[Hartmann]

XXi don´t sink nothing but...

"

The destination for that patrol was to be the Caribbean, where the boat would be tested under all conditions. On 1 May, U-2511 made first enemy contact. Three days later, on 4 May, Adalbert Schnee received the cease-fire order. A few hours later U-2511 made contact with the British cruiser HMS Norfolk among some other British warships. The boat approached to within 500 meters of the British warship without any sonar contact from the enemy destroyers. Schnee had here the opportunity to make an absolutely deadly attack against the cruiser, but left the scene without attacking and headed back to base. U-2511 reached Bergen on 5 May, 1945. There the commander spoke with officers of the HMS Norfolk a few days later, and they found it unbelievable that U-2511 was able to get so close without any sonar contact.

[Barkhorn1x]

Originally Posted by Hartmann

XXi don´t sink nothing but...

"

The destination for that patrol was to be the Caribbean, where the boat would be tested under all conditions. On 1 May, U-2511 made first enemy contact. Three days later, on 4 May, Adalbert Schnee received the cease-fire order. A few hours later U-2511 made contact with the British cruiser HMS Norfolk among some other British warships. The boat approached to within 500 meters of the British warship without any sonar contact from the enemy destroyers. Schnee had here the opportunity to make an absolutely deadly attack against the cruiser, but left the scene without attacking and headed back to base. U-2511 reached Bergen on 5 May, 1945. There the commander spoke with officers of the HMS Norfolk a few days later, and they found it unbelievable that U-2511 was able to get so close without any sonar contact.

Nice story. Still way too little, way too late. The Germans needed the Type XXI in QUANTITY in the spring of '43. Not a dozen subs in training in the spring of '45.

Barkhorn.

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by IRONxMortlock

Yes, but you have to admit that having their u-boats constantly sunk by aircraft was a huge incentive for the German navy to more rapidly install and use devices such as the snorkle. The US had far less need for it.

Also, don't forget the Type XXI. Revoultionary for its day and the first true submarine.

But how do you know, for sure, that they really were sunk ...

They may have escaped to Argentina and be hidding in a cave near the sea, waiting
for their great granchildren to pick up the Iron Cross and do it all over again.

We can't trust history till all of the facts are in ...

[Capt.LoneRanger]

Originally Posted by Hartmann

XXi don´t sink nothing but...

"

The destination for that patrol was to be the Caribbean, where the boat would be tested under all conditions. On 1 May, U-2511 made first enemy contact. Three days later, on 4 May, Adalbert Schnee received the cease-fire order. A few hours later U-2511 made contact with the British cruiser HMS Norfolk among some other British warships. The boat approached to within 500 meters of the British warship without any sonar contact from the enemy destroyers. Schnee had here the opportunity to make an absolutely deadly attack against the cruiser, but left the scene without attacking and headed back to base. U-2511 reached Bergen on 5 May, 1945. There the commander spoke with officers of the HMS Norfolk a few days later, and they found it unbelievable that U-2511 was able to get so close without any sonar contact.

True except one little detail: This was the second encounter of an enemy taskforce. I know, you have to dig deeper than Wikipedia-Tales, but infact the first contact was in war-time against a sub-hunting-group and U-2511 was detected immedately and long before it was in firing range. It was hunted down by the battlegroup, but surprised by the submerged speed and range, they lost contact and didn't get a DC close enough to the boat to cause a harm.
After the war was over, he made a mock attack on the cruiser, but Schnee noted, this was no real test, as the enemy was no longer on alert.