When to assign Narrowband tracker?

Janus · 02-27-07, 05:06 PM

Hi this is a noob question (well I am a noob

) but I get the impression that there are some disadvantages in using trackers in narrowband passive sonar.

I am usually playing the 688i platform. Question: Should I mark contacts in narrowband (most of the time towed array contacts) if I cannot get a tracker in broadband or should I wait until the contact is visible in broadband before I mark anything in narrowband?
Which frequency should be marked in narrowband, the strongest ones (which are shared by many platforms) or rather faint ones (which makes the difference between platforms)?

Do you get what I mean?

Oh and do you mark both contacts (true and ambigous) on the towed array before you make a turn to resolve the contacts and delete the ambigous contact afterwards, or do you make turn first to find out which contact is the true one and then mark it?

Thanks in advance to everybody who will help me out on this...

Dr.Sid · 02-27-07, 05:43 PM

You usually get NB first. So mark it. Mark the lowest frequency because it is the one which has the longest range. Also check the frequency .. most Russian platforms have it 50Hz .. American platforms have it 60Hz.

Mark other frequencies only if there are many targets on the same bearing and you have to pick some unusual frequency.

But as soon as you can mark BB, do so, because that allows you to use DEMON.

As for resolving ambiguity it never work for me on sub anyway.

To be · 02-27-07, 05:44 PM

1: The only advantage of Broadband I can think of is that it allows you to use DEMON to get a target's speed. It is possible you will never get a BB contact on a sub.

2: I usually mark both and then drop the one that is false after the turn.

Sonoboy · 02-27-07, 05:50 PM

I guess I'll take a shot at this.

Quote:

Should I mark contacts in narrowband (most of the time towed array contacts) if I cannot get a tracker in broadband or should I wait until the contact is visible in broadband before I mark anything in narrowband?

You should mark contacts in NB when you can't mark them in BB. Then when the contact is visible in BB, unassign the tracker and reassign it in BB. The advantage to marking a contact in BB is to get DEAMON information.

Quote:

Which frequency should be marked in narrowband, the strongest ones (which are shared by many platforms) or rather faint ones (which makes the difference between platforms)?

It would depend on the array used. For the towed array (which is good for low frequencies), mark the lowest frequency line (the left-most one). The sphere array is good for higher frequencies. You should mark the strongest lines.

Quote:

Do you get what I mean?

Yes.

Quote:

Oh and do you mark both contacts (true and ambigous) on the towed array before you make a turn to resolve the contacts and delete the ambigous contact afterwards, or do you make turn first to find out which contact is the true one and then mark it?

Nothing wrong with that. That just depends on your style. I will sometimes do that when I'm marking mirrored contacts in NB.

Janus · 02-27-07, 05:57 PM

That are cool tips

, thanks alot guys!

sonar732 · 02-27-07, 08:08 PM

To all the noobs...don't ever feel like you are asking a dumb question. Granted, if you are asking a tech support question with absolutely no information accept for "Help!"...that is a different story.

Sonobouy called it right. When you first get the trace 50hz tonal, assign it for initial information. Granted, since the DEMON information won't be taken from NB stuff, you won't have the correct speed. But, utilize course changes of your own and you can get a better estimate on range. Once you can get the BB trace, drop the NB tracker and assign one to your BB display.

Lastly, go to subguru's site for TimmyGoo's manual or quite a few others!

Janus · 02-28-07, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonar732

But, utilize course changes of your own and you can get a better estimate on range.

Sounds like manual TMA, it's so overwhelming. I'm going to fight through the manuals on subguru's site for that subject when I have much time (yeah I doubt there will ever be so much time on earth for me to learn manual TMA...

). The TMA basics are easy, but all the lead and lag course stuff...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

As for resolving ambiguity it never work for me on sub anyway.

Why is that? Okay it is very hard to keep track of the right contact in a conact rich environment especially if there are more contacts on the same bearing. Still the subs' TAs are much more comfortable than the FFG's TA.

Dr.Sid · 02-28-07, 04:47 AM

As for ambiguity .. I mean it does not work well with sonar autocrew, which I switch on time to time. Especially on Kilo sonar AC is very useful, since Kilo only have 2 trackers.
But back to TA. Sonar AC will remark false contact each time he finds it. On FFG you simply select which contact is false and AC wont change it, only sometimes if you marked it wrong

For manual sonar there is no problem.

zeropoint · 03-02-07, 08:41 AM

I often wont mark a contact if it's not what I am hunting in a target rich enviroment. it may be nice to know where that oiler or powerboat is incase you want to use them to help you evade incomming torpedos, but they arn't much use to me otherwise. Probably more advanced captains can think of other reasons to keep track of them... but I have a hard enogh time working out the TMA on what I am trying to kill, nevermind all those extra thigns out there.

02-27-07, 05:06 PM	#1
Janus XO Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 434 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	When to assign Narrowband tracker? Hi this is a noob question (well I am a noob ) but I get the impression that there are some disadvantages in using trackers in narrowband passive sonar. I am usually playing the 688i platform. Question: Should I mark contacts in narrowband (most of the time towed array contacts) if I cannot get a tracker in broadband or should I wait until the contact is visible in broadband before I mark anything in narrowband? Which frequency should be marked in narrowband, the strongest ones (which are shared by many platforms) or rather faint ones (which makes the difference between platforms)? Do you get what I mean? Oh and do you mark both contacts (true and ambigous) on the towed array before you make a turn to resolve the contacts and delete the ambigous contact afterwards, or do you make turn first to find out which contact is the true one and then mark it? Thanks in advance to everybody who will help me out on this...

02-27-07, 05:43 PM	#2
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	You usually get NB first. So mark it. Mark the lowest frequency because it is the one which has the longest range. Also check the frequency .. most Russian platforms have it 50Hz .. American platforms have it 60Hz. Mark other frequencies only if there are many targets on the same bearing and you have to pick some unusual frequency. But as soon as you can mark BB, do so, because that allows you to use DEMON. As for resolving ambiguity it never work for me on sub anyway.

02-27-07, 05:44 PM	#3
To be Electrician's Mate Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 140 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	1: The only advantage of Broadband I can think of is that it allows you to use DEMON to get a target's speed. It is possible you will never get a BB contact on a sub. 2: I usually mark both and then drop the one that is false after the turn.

02-27-07, 05:57 PM	#5
Janus XO Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 434 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	That are cool tips , thanks alot guys!

02-27-07, 08:08 PM	#6
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	To all the noobs...don't ever feel like you are asking a dumb question. Granted, if you are asking a tech support question with absolutely no information accept for "Help!"...that is a different story. Sonobouy called it right. When you first get the trace 50hz tonal, assign it for initial information. Granted, since the DEMON information won't be taken from NB stuff, you won't have the correct speed. But, utilize course changes of your own and you can get a better estimate on range. Once you can get the BB trace, drop the NB tracker and assign one to your BB display. Lastly, go to subguru's site for TimmyGoo's manual or quite a few others!

02-28-07, 04:47 AM	#8
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	As for ambiguity .. I mean it does not work well with sonar autocrew, which I switch on time to time. Especially on Kilo sonar AC is very useful, since Kilo only have 2 trackers. But back to TA. Sonar AC will remark false contact each time he finds it. On FFG you simply select which contact is false and AC wont change it, only sometimes if you marked it wrong For manual sonar there is no problem.

03-02-07, 08:41 AM	#9
zeropoint Watch Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 27 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I often wont mark a contact if it's not what I am hunting in a target rich enviroment. it may be nice to know where that oiler or powerboat is incase you want to use them to help you evade incomming torpedos, but they arn't much use to me otherwise. Probably more advanced captains can think of other reasons to keep track of them... but I have a hard enogh time working out the TMA on what I am trying to kill, nevermind all those extra thigns out there.