LWAMI suggestion - HF sonar counterdetectable

[Dr.Sid]

What about finally giving subs chance to counterdetect HF sonar ? It should be detectable, at range several times longer than it can detect targets.
Many current tactics both SP and MP abuse this sensor in unrealistic ways. HF is there to travel under ice and to find mines.

[LuftWolf]

As I recall, I can't influence this, the HF sonar simply does not show up on active intercept.

Cheers,
David

[suBB]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

What about finally giving subs chance to counterdetect HF sonar ? It should be detectable, at range several times longer than it can detect targets.
Many current tactics both SP and MP abuse this sensor in unrealistic ways. HF is there to travel under ice and to find mines.

Hmmmmm

I have an idea how to do it through editing, even report bearing of HF source and alert the skipper when HF is detected, as well as an audio resembling the HF transmission.

We'll give it a shot and see what happens.

You also said detectable at ranges several times longer than it can detect targets. What did you have in mind ? (range)

[Dr.Sid]

Hm .. I did some checks .. and really .. I don't see how to do it. HF is not even a sensor in database, it is just a different 3D view.

I think reasonable ranges would be 1-2 miles for detection, 5 miles counter detection .. or something like that .. you whould know when it is safe to use. You should be pretty sure with your 5nm vicinity.
But let's discuss the possibility of doing it first.

[suBB]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Hm .. I did some checks .. and really .. I don't see how to do it. HF is not even a sensor in database, it is just a different 3D view.

I think reasonable ranges would be 1-2 miles for detection, 5 miles counter detection .. or something like that .. you whould know when it is safe to use. You should be pretty sure with your 5nm vicinity.
But let's discuss the possibility of doing it first.

Ok.

My 1st attempt would be:

Test case:

Two playable submarines, SUB A and SUB B, SUB A detects SUB B HF sonar at 5nm or less

Trigger:

Event / auto / refire time: 1 second

Duration: 5 seconds

Doctrine:

If detect SUB A by SUB B with HF sonar AND

Range from SUB A to SUB B < 5.25 nm THEN (to cover range at 5nm or less)

Trigger fire

Script:

Send report to ownship “sub A detected sub B HF sonar” (at least, to know if trigger fired or not)
Enter bearing for SUB B

Notes:

Run a script to report bearing of the HF source, in the case a bearing on SUB B while the conditions are met. IIRC this could work in SP, but in MP we ran into problems of it ‘half working’. It would work for the host, but not for clients. The bearing report is sent to NAV and could make up for the act int.

I’m thinking that the moment SUB B turns on his HF sonar from 5 nm, that would force the trigger to fire, then spit out a bearing report on SUB A nav screen, revealing the bearing of the HF source. However, I’m not sure if toggling the HF sonar(on, off, then on again) itself would effectively enable or disable the trigger. I am also not sure if actual detection of HF has to be made for the trigger to fire either.

[kage]

Originally Posted by suBB

If detect SUB A by SUB B with HF sonar AND
Range from SUB A to SUB B < 5.25 nm THEN (to cover range at 5nm or less)

If AI used it, then maybe. For a player, the detection is made as a marker, as opposed to as a contact. (The latter could trigger the detect condition.)

I’m thinking that the moment SUB B turns on his HF sonar from 5 nm, that would force the trigger to fire,

Presuming the human player would get them as contacts, he'd still have to mark them.

then spit out a bearing report on SUB A nav screen, revealing the bearing of the HF source. However, I’m not sure if toggling the HF sonar(on, off, then on again) itself would effectively enable or disable the trigger. I am also not sure if actual detection of HF has to be made for the trigger to fire either.

Can a player turn it off, in game engine terms, after enabling it once? Will it still be 'on' after leaving the screen for it?

If this is doable, the way to do it is in the database.

[Dr.Sid]

I serisouly doubt this could work, but it has to be tested for sure. Good idea.

[Dr.Sid]

So .. HF sonar is not sensor at all from DW standpoint. It is not in database. It does not even generate tracks, just markers. Since it is not in database, no sensor can counterdetect it.
What is surprising is that you actually CAN add trigger on some target being detected by HF. When selection detection sensor, HF simply is there, even if it is not sensor at all.
On the other hand, I failed to make it work. While all passive and active sensors fires trigger nicely, if you set it to HF, you get nothing.
I guess it is just another of those small little things which won't be possible to mod.