Impossible To Evade Torpedoes

[Eagle1_Division]

I just played Fillipino Convoy and the U.S. escort found me. I was just a few meters above the bottom to be hard to detect, but eventually his helo fired a torpedo. I was waiting to try a nice-looking trick from The Hunt for Red October. I set the ship to ahead flank, and the torpedo started pinging. As the pinging got faster I fired CM's and Blew the ballast, I hit the surface at 32 knots. Smehow, the torpedo managed to go from 205 meters, to the surface, in under a minute and at about a 90*angle(it was heading towards me as i found out in recording). I even opened DW edit and found the angle to be 60*... Even with 3 Active CM's and an impossible climb angle, the torpedo still killed me, I didn't have show truth on so I had to rely on the recording.(apparently while u can't c them the ships teleport around the map???) I find this all to be extremely puzzling .

[Molon Labe]

If ships appear to be teleporting, that is just your solution or link reports updating.

Torpedoes are more manueverable than you. Don't expect violent manuevers to be able to get you out of trouble. The best way to evade the torpedo is to stay out of it's sensor cone to prevent it from acquiring you. If it does acquire, your next best bet is to try to get the seeker to lock onto a CM by positioning the CM and manuevering such that the torp seeker has to scan over the CM to hold its lock on you.

[Bellman]

I agree with MLs good advice. It may be the case though that you have a torp dropped almost on your head, or launched in your face, where you have very limited opportunities for escape. In these instances violent manoeuvres may be your only survival option.

Its not for me to prescribe as I think each player should experiment with some highly risky physical evasion tactics. It is generaly true that some torps can outmanoeuvre you but it is possible to set the AI some very difficult calculations.

In flight sims two methods have been successfuly employed by pilots facing incoming missiles. Firstly the barrel roll head on to spoof an incoming air launched missile and secondly the anti Sam vertical dive with a 90 deg pullout offset. Both manoeuvres push the incomings computation to the limits within the confines of its own inertial propulsion envelope. Forgive the simplification but elements from these tactics can be employed by the sub captain .

Torps could be outmanoeuvred in extremis pre-104. My post 104 (LWAMI 306) tests observe, as Eagle1_Division reports above, a very marked (exaggerated?) degree of torp (Mk 48) manoeuvrability when locked-on to target. So the jury here is out on the 'new' percentages for survivability

The rigidity of search patterns and the lack of responsiveness of many 'air launched' torps
do not present quite the challenge of the new Mk48 and Mk 50 torps.

[Bellman]

Edited out double post.

[Castout]

Man the scene i hate MOST from 'The Hunt of Red October' is when the torpedoes exploded on countermeasures . If could really be a classic if it wasn't for that moronic scene. Now thx to that scene the only worthy sub movie is Das Boot.

[Dr.Sid]

We (public) don't know if torpedoes does explode on CM or not.

[Castout]

yea like flare/chaff is able able to detonate an incoming missile. Cmmon if flares and chaffs don't detonate missile why should sub countermeasures do?

Look at WWII type torpedo fuse: magnetic and impact.
I bet there's no magnetic field generated by a countermeasure and obviously impact fuse won't detonate either. If topedo does explode on countermeasure why does Oliver Hazard Perry class employ a nixie topedo decoy? The safest would be to throw lots of CMs and the threat torps would explode on them.

In short CMs only spoof/fool the sensor/homing devices and has got no effect on detonation devices/fuses. I think

But then again one could question how do you know that chaffs and flares don't detonate incoming missiles? I know because if chaffs and flares do detonate incoming missiles, all tanks would have employed them. I don't see any tanks employing a flares dispenser(only smoke and anti missile missile system). The reason tanks don't employ flares dispenser is because their land speed is infinitely small compared to the incoming missile speed so spoofing the missile sensor would be ineffective as the location of that tank is relatively unchanged. I think.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Castout

Look at WWII type torpedo fuse: magnetic and impact.
I bet there's no magnetic field generated by a countermeasure and obviously impact fuse won't detonate either. If topedo does explode on countermeasure why does Oliver Hazard Perry class employ a nixie topedo decoy? The safest would be to throw lots of CMs and the threat torps would explode on them.

Actually, the Nixie also has a decoying advantage in that it moves, so it can trick a torpedo smart enough to actually measure (via Doppler generally) whether the target is moving. It is also moving in the same general direction of the intended target, so even if the sub is wire-steering, it might not be able to figure it out at once.

But I agree with you on the larger points. Large decoys like the Russian MG-74 or the American MOSS (is MOSS a Technothriller-creation or does it exist?) and Nixie probably have room for electromagnetics that can generate a field to explode a torpedo and so could do it. The smaller bubble generators and noisemakers that the game seems to be simulating almost certainly don't have that facility. Even if the torpedo hit the little canister head on, it shouldn't detonate the fuse unless it is so sensitive the question becomes why didn't it explode against some stray ocean current.

On the other hand, you might note that in DW, we have no choice whether to use a bubble generator or a MG-74.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Castout

Man the scene i hate MOST from 'The Hunt of Red October' is when the torpedoes exploded on countermeasures . If could really be a classic if it wasn't for that moronic scene. Now thx to that scene the only worthy sub movie is Das Boot.

I can't recall that scene...

[Eagle1_Division]

What I meant was when I was on the recording and show truth was on the ships were teleporting... I guess that means paranoia is right... If u don't look at something or know its there, it breaks the laws of physics Probolly it didn't record correctly though... What happend with the torpedo though is this: A torpedo is headed strait for me, going at me head-to head. I was at about 205 m I heard it ping, and as the pinging got to about a second apart, I launched 2 active CM's and blew the ballast, im now heading at 32 knts to the surface. While im climbing I fire another CM about halfway. Then I hit the surface, and after about a half second, without any pinging, it blows me out of the water.

Oh and the "moronic" scene had truth to it(at least in-game) I was testing out a mission I had made for an Ohio mod(yes, dangerous waters, it replaces 688I). An enemy ASW plane had found me and fired 2 torpedoes, I turned rudder hard right, And spit out countermeasures as fast as i could. The ohio being massive, I had launched many countermeasures before I was at a course away from the torpedo, about 10-15. As the torpedo started pinging faster and faster, me running from the CM's at full speed, it exploded on the CM's.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Eagle1_Division

What I meant was when I was on the recording and show truth was on the ships were teleporting... I guess that means paranoia is right... If u don't look at something or know its there, it breaks the laws of physics Probolly it didn't record correctly though... What happend with the torpedo though is this: A torpedo is headed strait for me, going at me head-to head. I was at about 205 m I heard it ping, and as the pinging got to about a second apart, I launched 2 active CM's and blew the ballast, im now heading at 32 knts to the surface. While im climbing I fire another CM about halfway. Then I hit the surface, and after about a half second, without any pinging, it blows me out of the water.

Oh and the "moronic" scene had truth to it(at least in-game) I was testing out a mission I had made for an Ohio mod(yes, dangerous waters, it replaces 688I). An enemy ASW plane had found me and fired 2 torpedoes, I turned rudder hard right, And spit out countermeasures as fast as i could. The ohio being massive, I had launched many countermeasures before I was at a course away from the torpedo, about 10-15. As the torpedo started pinging faster and faster, me running from the CM's at full speed, it exploded on the CM's.

In a head-on situation, any CMs you deploy are very unlikely to have any effect. The torp is going to have a lead pursuit course on you, and isn't looking at anything you leave behind you. It's just going to point itself towards wherever you're turning towards, whether that turn is horizontal or vertical, and meet you there.

[ASWnut101]

I just got done watching HFRO last week. No torpedo explodes on a CM.



And what you should have done was get really SHALLOW. You are much harder to detect because of 1) ambient wave noise, and 2) Active can't detect you very easily at shallow depths (ie. periscope depth) from afar.


and for your blow-tanks monuver. Yes, it can be done (I have done it.) But you need to be going really fast, and need to be at a reasonable depth. As I recall, the waters in that mission aren't very deep. Best thing is about 100meters, flank speed, with the torpedo coming at you from ~45 degrees off your bow. Don't go too deep or the Torp will curve in the vertical and hit you from below.

[fatty]

Eagle, my SOP for when an active torpedo has acquired me is very similar to what you have mentioned here except with the addition of rudder.

I try to position the torpedo at my 4 or 8 o'clock and ring up ahead standard. When the active interval begins to drop indicating homing I lay on flank, beginning, to quote PeriscopeDepth's signature, "executing the well-known maneuver of getting the hell out"

Once up to speed I wait until the interval is at 1. Drop active countermeasures (deep), blow ballast, and apply hard rudder. You corkscrew all the way to the top at breakneck speed, moving out of the sensor cone in case the torpedo follows you into the climb. This has yet to fail me unless I have no CMs loaded, there are multiple torpedos, or there was insufficient warning (e.g. air-dropped).

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

I can't recall that scene...

Hmm i think it was when 'big d' (SSN Dallas) dispensed countermeasures then blew ballast to spoof an incoming torpedo from the Sierra or is that Akula class submarine.
As i recall that torp exploded on countermeasures.

The scene whereby the torp launched by a maritime patrol aircraft hitting the canyon cliff was awesome though. I have no ill-feel about that.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Castout

Hmm i think it was when 'big d' (SSN Dallas) dispensed countermeasures then blew ballast to spoof an incoming torpedo from the Sierra or is that Akula class submarine.
As i recall that torp exploded on countermeasures.

The scene whereby the torp launched by a maritime patrol aircraft hitting the canyon cliff was awesome though. I have no ill-feel about that.

No, it struck and killed the Konavalov.
(Andre, you've lost another submarine?)